View Poll Results: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

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  • Yes

    53 50.96%
  • No

    42 40.38%
  • Other

    9 8.65%
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Thread: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

  1. #261
    Educator OnWisconsin's Avatar
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Umm, no. I actually have working brain and was smart enough not to seek careers in such profession.
    But you do realize the need for people to fill those positions, right?

    I just cant figure out why someone who's life isn't effected by union workers in any way, would be so opposed to them. How could you even form an opinion, you have no experience with them.
    Last edited by OnWisconsin; 09-05-14 at 02:14 PM.
    Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
    - Abraham Lincoln

    Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly.
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

    God, how patient are Thy poor! These corporations and masters of manipulation in finance heaping up great fortunes by a system of legalized extortion,
    and then exacting from the contributors--to whom a little means so much--a double share to guard the treasure!
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

  2. #262
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    But you do realize the need for people to fill those positions, right?

    I just cant figure out why someone who's life isn't effected by union workers in any way, would be so opposed to them. How could you even form an opinion, you have no experience with them.
    No, I realize that such work needs to be done. However, it does not have to be done by people, It can be done by robots if they are more cost effective.

    Everyone in the country is affected. Unions have a large impact upon the whole economy. If labor cost are too high and companies outsource or automate because of it, then it reduces other jobs, tax revenues and many other things. Those losses, especially tax revenue has to be made up by others, thus taxes have to be raised (unless the government gives up it's social welfare programs).

    P.S. Thank you for the demonstration of how many on the left are ignorant of the widespread effects of leftist policy and the selfishness self-centered attitude that leads to acceptance of such ideas.
    Last edited by DVSentinel; 09-05-14 at 03:17 PM.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  3. #263
    Educator OnWisconsin's Avatar
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    No, I realize that such work needs to be done. However, it does not have to be done by people, It can be done by robots if they are more cost effective.

    Everyone in the country is affected. Unions have a large impact upon the whole economy. If labor cost are too high and companies outsource or automate because of it, then it reduces other jobs, tax revenues and many other things. Those losses, especially tax revenue has to be made up by others, thus taxes have to be raised (unless the government gives up it's social welfare programs).

    P.S. Thank you for the demonstration of how many on the left are ignorant of the widespread effects of leftist policy and the selfishness self-centered attitude that leads to acceptance of such ideas.


    I think you just stuck your foot in your mouth.

    Where one business fails there will be others to take its place.

    Unions have large impacts on the economy by paying their workers more money. A person who has more money, spends more money, thus stimulating the economy. I thought that was economics 101.


    According to a January 2011 Bureau of Labor Statistics report, workers who belong to a union typically earn higher pay than non-union workers doing the same kind of job.

    Average mean salary of a union worker is $917 per week vs a non union worker at $717 a week. The union worker pays more in taxes than the non union worker therefor your tax revenue argument is completely false.

    Most jobs union workers occupy cannot be done by robots. I don't know what world you live in but I would personally love to see a robot doing rebar work, or structural steel work on a skyscraper. These are all jobs that require actual humans.

    You just don't like the fact that Unions generally support those on the left. That probably boils your blood that an organization can donate funds to a political party. Just like it boils my blood that corporations can donate unlimited funds to a political party. What you essentially want to do is remove the ability for the Democrats to get large sources of money from unions. Why not just repeal citizens united and get the money out of politics all together. Put everyone on a level playing field.
    Last edited by OnWisconsin; 09-05-14 at 07:36 PM.
    Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
    - Abraham Lincoln

    Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly.
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

    God, how patient are Thy poor! These corporations and masters of manipulation in finance heaping up great fortunes by a system of legalized extortion,
    and then exacting from the contributors--to whom a little means so much--a double share to guard the treasure!
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

  4. #264
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    I think you just stuck your foot in your mouth.

    Where one business fails there will be others to take its place.

    Unions have large impacts on the economy by paying their workers more money. A person who has more money, spends more money, thus stimulating the economy. I thought that was economics 101.


    According to a January 2011 Bureau of Labor Statistics report, workers who belong to a union typically earn higher pay than non-union workers doing the same kind of job.

    Average mean salary of a union worker is $917 per week vs a non union worker at $717 a week. The union worker pays more in taxes than the non union worker therefor your tax revenue argument is completely false.

    Most jobs union workers occupy cannot be done by robots. I don't know what world you live in but I would personally love to see a robot doing rebar work, or structural steel work on a skyscraper. These are all jobs that require actual humans.

    You just don't like the fact that Unions generally support those on the left. That probably boils your blood that an organization can donate funds to a political party. Just like it boils my blood that corporations can donate unlimited funds to a political party. What you essentially want to do is remove the ability for the Democrats to get large sources of money from unions. Why not just repeal citizens united and get the money out of politics all together. Put everyone on a level playing field.
    Just once, it would nice if someone posting such nonsense looked at cost of living differences.

    Cost of Living Calculator: Compare the Cost of Living in Two Cities - CNNMoney
    Difference between Dallas and Milwaukee

    Groceries1%less
    Housing42%more
    Utilities5%more
    Transportation3%less
    Health Care16%more

    So, if your union in Milwaukee Wi you make 12% more but costs you the above difference in common expenditures. There is not that great of a difference between costs in TX vs WI, still more than salary difference. Check other cities that do not have right to work vs right to work, in most cases, cost of living in the right to work areas will be lower and more than covers the difference in salaries.

    No, the union giving money to the socialist does not bother me since unions are one of Marx's tools for achieving socialism and then communism. Even socialist existing does not bother me. It is the socialist trying to force their crap down my throat that pisses me off.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  5. #265
    Educator OnWisconsin's Avatar
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Just once, it would nice if someone posting such nonsense looked at cost of living differences.

    Cost of Living Calculator: Compare the Cost of Living in Two Cities - CNNMoney
    Difference between Dallas and Milwaukee

    Groceries1%less
    Housing42%more
    Utilities5%more
    Transportation3%less
    Health Care16%more

    So, if your union in Milwaukee Wi you make 12% more but costs you the above difference in common expenditures. There is not that great of a difference between costs in TX vs WI, still more than salary difference. Check other cities that do not have right to work vs right to work, in most cases, cost of living in the right to work areas will be lower and more than covers the difference in salaries.

    No, the union giving money to the socialist does not bother me since unions are one of Marx's tools for achieving socialism and then communism. Even socialist existing does not bother me. It is the socialist trying to force their crap down my throat that pisses me off.
    Oil tax revenue subsidizes a lot of Texas's tax base.

    Do you realize that union meetings are completely democratic? They vote on the direction and expenditures of the union. It's far better than the dictatorial situations you have at most private corporations.

    Who is forcing anything down your throat? Does anyone anywhere have to take a union job if they do not want one? If you don't like unions ... stay the hell away from them. It's not that hard buddy..

    are you just trolling me with that socialism/communism bull****? This country had damn near full unionization in the 1950's and 1960's. Nobody was screaming communism then. You my friend have watched far to much right wing bull**** propaganda and I'm going to end this conversation here because its obviously not going anywhere. I will keep stating facts and you will keep pulling talking points out of your ass.
    Last edited by OnWisconsin; 09-06-14 at 11:18 AM.
    Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
    - Abraham Lincoln

    Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly.
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

    God, how patient are Thy poor! These corporations and masters of manipulation in finance heaping up great fortunes by a system of legalized extortion,
    and then exacting from the contributors--to whom a little means so much--a double share to guard the treasure!
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

  6. #266
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    Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    Unions have large impacts on the economy by paying their workers more money.
    That's not what they do. They coerce OTHER employers to pay THEIR employees more money.

    A person who has more money, spends more money, thus stimulating the economy. I thought that was economics 101.
    Liberal fantasy economics 101, maybe. It would be stimulative if, for example, unions were somehow able to cause everyone in economy to suddenly have more money. Short-term, that would definitely be economically stimulative. Inflationary too, but yes, stimulative. But when you form a labor cartel and coerce some employers to pay only the union member employees more money than the organizations customers, taxpayers, rate payers, etc. would like to, no, that is not economically stimulative. Ask the auto industry in Michigan if you don't believe me.

    Average mean salary of a union worker is $917 per week vs a non union worker at $717 a week. The union worker pays more in taxes than the non union worker therefor your tax revenue argument is completely false.
    And when you use a higher dollar number as the denominator of figuring out who is more productive, it results in the union workers being a worse deal on a dollar for dollar basis. Employers wouldn't voluntarily hire employees that are a worse deal if it weren't for the coercion involved in collective-bargaining.

    You should also do a bit of research as to which employees are happier between union and nonunion workers in the same jobs. You might be surprised. :-)

    You just don't like the fact that Unions generally support those on the left.
    I don't like public-sector unions in particular for the same reasons that Franklin Delano Roosevelt called them unthinkable and intolerable. Public-sector unions should be abolished nationwide.

    Why not just repeal citizens united and get the money out of politics all together. Put everyone on a level playing field.
    We can do that too.

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