View Poll Results: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

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  • Yes

    53 50.96%
  • No

    42 40.38%
  • Other

    9 8.65%
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Thread: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

  1. #141
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It's not a straw man to provide an example of something that cannot be evenly distributed. And seniority is not necessarily a good way to determine anything.
    It is when the discussion is about what unions affect, since they dont affect who becomes a supervisor. A more appropriate comparison would be a new position comes available that falls into the group they can represent., the union wouldnt just want the most senior person to get the position, they would want the most qualified person. If two people have the same qualifications then seniority would factor in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It makes sense that they would do this... now if only they'd come out and plainly admit it. They sell a service, which is to try to extract more out of other people's employers. In that sense they too are business people with their own self-focused business goals.

    The following link makes a comprehensive argument explaining how unions operate as cartels, with their intent being to control and restrict supply in order to drive up the price of the thing they sell. That is exactly what they do. How Unions Work | The Employee Free Choice Act and the Economy
    I wouldnt argue that unions may need a major overhaul but there is still a use for them. If another way to ensure workers arent exploited comes along, I would definately look into them.

  2. #142
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    No, unions have a bad habit of threatening bosses who try to remove the bad apples. This fact is as old as stone. No need to suggest otherwise.

    Your suggestion makes me think you don't have much experience in union represented job environments.
    I have been a member of my local union for 3 years and a shop steward for 2. Obviously I havent been a member of all unions everywhere but I have never heard of a supervisor being threatened for disaplining a subordinate.

  3. #143
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    All I stated is that some money goes to the GOP especially on the state level....
    Why should union money go to any political candidate? The job of the union is to improve negotiating power against more powerful companies, not setting legislation.

    Union - political alliances create monopolistic situations like forced participation by workers like happens in closed shop states, and confiscation of privately owned stock
    which can then be given to the unions.

    I've got no problem with a groups getting together to enhance bargaining power, be it 2 or 2 million. I've got a problem with forcing me to participate.

  4. #144
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    I have been a member of my local union for 3 years and a shop steward for 2. Obviously I havent been a member of all unions everywhere but I have never heard of a supervisor being threatened for disaplining a subordinate.
    Then my claim holds true. Ever wonder why some companies have separate secure parking lots for management? Familiar with job slow downs, production line sabotage? There are many things union members can and have done to deal with bosses they don't like.

    Also, consider some of the actions bosses have taken to remove people, only to have them ordered returned to their jobs after arbitration, or other such review.

  5. #145
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Then my claim holds true. Ever wonder why some companies have separate secure parking lots for management? Familiar with job slow downs, production line sabotage? There are many things union members can and have done to deal with bosses they don't like.

    Also, consider some of the actions bosses have taken to remove people, only to have them ordered returned to their jobs after arbitration, or other such review.
    I guess I just havent worked in the right job sectors because no where I have worked supervisors had a fenced in parking lot. As far as bosses removeing people and they being reinstated, find the problem with the system and fix it instead of getting rid of unions. Again, I dont disagree that some things done by unions rise to the level of ridiculous but I have seen and experienced supervisors that play with the employees lives just because they can.

  6. #146
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    I guess I just havent worked in the right job sectors because no where I have worked supervisors had a fenced in parking lot. As far as bosses removeing people and they being reinstated, find the problem with the system and fix it instead of getting rid of unions. Again, I dont disagree that some things done by unions rise to the level of ridiculous but I have seen and experienced supervisors that play with the employees lives just because they can.
    I have written before that I don't inherently have a problem with private sector unions. Frankly, I'd rather see a company provide appropriate pay and benefits that would make union representation unnecessary. The dues would be better used in the workers hands.

    As to bad bosses, it certainly doesn't require a union shop to find supervisors who get a charge out of messing with people. They can be as bad for a company as poor finished goods

  7. #147
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I have written before that I don't inherently have a problem with private sector unions. Frankly, I'd rather see a company provide appropriate pay and benefits that would make union representation unnecessary. The dues would be better used in the workers hands.

    As to bad bosses, it certainly doesn't require a union shop to find supervisors who get a charge out of messing with people. They can be as bad for a company as poor finished goods
    To me, public sector is even more important to have a union since you dont even have a profit margin to keep managers in check.

    I would love to see more companies that have employees that dont need or want to join the union and I am against closed shop 100% as long as the union doesnt have to represent the person who doesnt join.

  8. #148
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    I think unions were wrong headed to begin with. The problem was the relationship between labor and capital, so something like a union that pits the interests of one party against the other could only logically make the problem worse, not better.
    Last edited by Henrin; 08-18-14 at 01:21 PM.

  9. #149
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    To me, public sector is even more important to have a union since you dont even have a profit margin to keep managers in check.

    I would love to see more companies that have employees that dont need or want to join the union and I am against closed shop 100% as long as the union doesnt have to represent the person who doesnt join.
    We certainly part ways on the public sector part. Public Sector Unions have led to some of the most damaging economics state and local governments have had to deal with.

    Because there are few economic ramifications for their actions, taxpayers in general are left holding the bag when politicians financially benefitting from public union support pay back the effort.

    The State of California has been massively damaged by the efforts of unions like the SEIU who have purchased control of the Legislature with money provided by taxpayers through union dues.

    At least in the private sector, a unions excessive actions can cut their own throat. In the public sector, as long as their are taxpayers to foot the bill, it doesn't matter how outrageous the union request.

  10. #150
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Why should union money go to any political candidate? The job of the union is to improve negotiating power against more powerful companies, not setting legislation.
    Negotiation power, and collective bargaining is directly political and often plays on the state and national level politics.


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