View Poll Results: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

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  • Yes

    53 50.96%
  • No

    42 40.38%
  • Other

    9 8.65%
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Thread: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

  1. #131
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    I dont want a nanny state. I dont want laws regulating these things. These are the job of the union. Just because something is spelled out in a manual doesnt mean they have any force without laws behind them. The non-union jobs I have had didnt distribute the choice of when to take vacation evenly at all. The boses favorite people got to take their vacation whenever they wanted to and could walk in and get the next day off and the people who werent had to ask for vacation two weeks in advance.

    i can only use my own experiences here...so i know they are anecdotal

    i have managed a lot of people over 30+ years

    every boss has favorites...i do

    people we can count on no matter what

    people who dont look at the clock when something has be finished

    i have four i can think of immediately

    and yes...if they came to me today and said they needed the next few days off, i would 99% say okay

    BUT they also know that i still hold them responsible for their jobs

    these four would make sure nothing falls through the cracks

    can i treat everyone the exact same way.....no

    sorry....but that is a privilege that is earned not given

    unions had a place in our history....and did magnificent things for the general worker

    now they are political machines...care little for the worker

    and have put companies out of business (see hostess for one)
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

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  2. #132
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    [...] I think it was eastern airlines that died as a company because of a union. [...]
    Eastern died as a result of deregulation and a corporate raider (Frank Lorenzo) who locked out the union and sold off part of the company to a second company that he also owned. All the major carriers eventually went bankrupt as a result of deregulation, the courts letting some of them raid union trust funds in the process. Airline deregulation also bankrupted surface transportation companies as the lost market share to cheap airline tickets (Greyhound comes to mind).

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    A better solution than unions is to include company stock in workers' compensation.
    Maybe, maybe not. A better solution is for the workers to own the company outright, for companies can be bought, pumped, and dumped (seems like that was Mitt Romney's specialty). Of course the government will allow overseas companies to compete unfairly, so unless you're speaking of a business that is immune to foreign competition you'll still be screwed by the people that make the rules (and those people are not the politicians, but the ones who own them).

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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    Hello Polgara!!!

    How's Garion and Belgarath?
    Still making sure the bad guys are punished - still having fun thinking up new ways to accomplish it - and still - with Polgara's help, trying to make sure Ce'Nedra doesn't cause too much mischief! ! I often wonder how Emperor Kal Zakath and blindfolded Seeress Cyradis [who was chosen to decide the fate of the world] would have been portrayed in future Eddings' books. What a loss his death was to those of us who very much enjoyed his fantasy epic series of books.

  4. #134
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Utter nonsense and totally ignores we have federal, state and local governments - not one monolithic government.
    Just because there a governments in place, does not mean they have the right or the power to use power to dictate the market. Look at the history of when the government controls the market, it never works out.
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Why do we need unions when Obama is allowing illegals to come to America? These people will work for minimum wage and be very happy to have a job. Isn't that why they are coming here? But of course people will say that "capitalist" will take advantage of these poor illegals. Either way unions are a thing of the past. They WERE good when they were needed but we now have all those laws in place to protect employees. The great Obama has even passed laws for equal pay for women which his WH even refuses to follow. Their is NO true protection for anyone who works. I am working with union craft people now and 75% of them don't like or trust their unions. I could never understand why anyone would want to or have to pay someone to keep a job.

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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    He just wants his own little motorcycle.
    And the hat.

  7. #137
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Many people often claim that labor and trade unions are no longer needed, because "safety regulations, fair wages, days off, 8 hour work day, and child labor" have already been won. They claim because of this labor, and trade unions are no longer needed. My question is: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?
    To the extent that unions are necessary, they will demonstrate so by making their companies more competitive.

  8. #138
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    The managerial job thing is a strawman to my point because I didnt mention it and know the union has no control over it. Yes, seniority is a good way to determine things.
    It's not a straw man to provide an example of something that cannot be evenly distributed. And seniority is not necessarily a good way to determine anything.

    I will have to admit, in a lot of open shops the union will only fight for their members, but why shouldnt they. Their members are who joined the union and paid the dues of the union.
    It makes sense that they would do this... now if only they'd come out and plainly admit it. They sell a service, which is to try to extract more out of other people's employers. In that sense they too are business people with their own self-focused business goals.

    The following link makes a comprehensive argument explaining how unions operate as cartels, with their intent being to control and restrict supply in order to drive up the price of the thing they sell. That is exactly what they do. How Unions Work | The Employee Free Choice Act and the Economy
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 08-15-14 at 01:58 AM.

  9. #139
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    I think of it this way - there's 3 sides to the labor question:
    1. Employers
    2. Unions
    3. Laborers (as in, the people working)


    My understanding of the history here is that originally (and for thousands of years, for the most part), the employers were on top of the heap, and could basically dictate things as they wished. Even to the extent of effective or actual enslavement...even killing their workers if they so desired.

    At some point in the last few hundred years, however, there were multiple movements all over the world that led to far more power and such in the hands of workers and unions, in many cases specifically the formation of unions caused this.
    At some point, I think the power unions have was effectively in the same corner as the power of the mass of working people.

    But now it seems to be separate, at least in some cases.

    Currently I get an impression of power being removed from the hands of the working persons, some going into unions and some going into the hands of the employers.

    This is not a good thing.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  10. #140
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    Re: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    i can only use my own experiences here...so i know they are anecdotal

    i have managed a lot of people over 30+ years

    every boss has favorites...i do

    people we can count on no matter what

    people who dont look at the clock when something has be finished

    i have four i can think of immediately

    and yes...if they came to me today and said they needed the next few days off, i would 99% say okay

    BUT they also know that i still hold them responsible for their jobs

    these four would make sure nothing falls through the cracks

    can i treat everyone the exact same way.....no

    sorry....but that is a privilege that is earned not given

    unions had a place in our history....and did magnificent things for the general worker

    now they are political machines...care little for the worker

    and have put companies out of business (see hostess for one)
    I wouldnt argue that unions need an overhaul and if there was an alternative I would look into it but I dont agree with "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". Workers need to be protected from being exploited.

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