View Poll Results: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?

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  • Yes

    27 40.30%
  • No

    34 50.75%
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    6 8.96%
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Thread: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?

  1. #21
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    Re: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    But executive orders are completely legal and constitutional.
    As long as they do not either create or circumvent established laws.
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    Re: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Simple question: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?
    Simple question, no really a simple answer.

    On a personal level, I don't really approve. I don't think it's a good precedent to be sent, and I think it could've been done without setting such a precedent by getting proxies in the private sector to bring suit regarding the problematic issues in question.

    On a political level, I'm rather neutral. I think it's too soon to accurately suggest how this will impact the Republicans electoral chances. In large part I think it depends on what actually comes of the case, which I think is something that is somewhat up in the air. Depending on the skill of spinning on either side I could just as easily see this helping republicans in future elections as I can see it harming it.

    On a principled level, I do approve of it. The republicans in the house have been complaining about the executive actions of the President for some time now. Even if some of these actions were unconstitutional, unless it can be shown Obama purposefully attempted to violate the constitution (as opposed to simply misjudging), it's not an impeachable offense. Plus impeachment would be political and pragmatically ridiculous to even try. However, if you're going to complain and complain and complain then principally you should at least try and take SOME action to rectify what you're complaining about as opposed to just complaining. So with that in mind I approve of Republicans in the House finally putting their money where their mouth is.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    But executive orders are completely legal and constitutional.
    Stated in such a broad way it's not exactly accurate. The reality is "executive orders" in a general sense are a legal and constitutional thing, but individual executive orders ABSOLUTELY can be illegal/unconstitutional. One can not broadly state executive orders are constitutional in some kind of absolute stance, because it's not the case. I reference Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson who laid the foundation for the determinations of constitutionality of executive orders, and it largely depends on the relationship between the President and Congress. There were three types of EO's that the Justice laid out in his concurrence in Youngstown Sheet and Tube Co. v. Sawyer:

    First are those issued persuant to an expressed or implied authorization of Congress. In these cases the POTUS's authority is maximum, with an EO being invalid only if what it does is outside the scope of the governments power.

    The next are those with a "Zone of Twilight"; instances where a President acts singularly based on his independent power and Congress has not spoken on the issue. Here, the validity of the EO is a bit more questionable and depends on the imperatives of the event and contemporary imponderables.

    Finally, there are those that are incompatable with the expressed or implied will of Congress. This is the flip side of the first instance and is where the POTUS's authority is at it's lowest. The EO would only be constitutional if it's something a court could disable the congress from being able to act on.

    Justice Jackson pointed out that instances falling in that last category are ones where the notion of checks and balances within our government becomes at stake. And it's in that last instance where some of the potential complaints by the House Republicans lie. For example, Congress had a pretty clear express and implied will as it related to the Dream Act, with the Act failing to pass the Congress. Yet through executive action the President implemented in a temporary fashion a number of the key points and efforts of said act. Such is a case where there is at least a legitimate argument that the executive order in question may've been outside the bounds of what the President can reasonably do.

    So no, according to SCOTUS case law, a broad and absolute statement that Executive Orders are constitutional is erroneous. Executive Orders MAY be constitutional, but it's based on various conditions and circumstances. Executive Orders may also be Unconstitutional.

  3. #23
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    Re: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Quick question, when was the last time Democrats initiated impeachment proceedings against a Republican?
    First there are multiple ways to employ bipartisan bull**** tactics. Attempted impeachment is far from the only way. Democrats are just as guilty as Republicans of that.

    But to answer your question, George W Bush. And I have no idea how many Congress members or state or local representatives.
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    Re: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Quick question, when was the last time Democrats initiated impeachment proceedings against a Republican?
    2008.

    Articles of Impeachment were put forward in the House against George W. Bush and a majority voted to refer the resolution to the judiciary committee, but it never made it back out of the committee.

    Supported by still in office Reps Sheila Jackson Lee, Keith Ellington, Jim McDermott, Sam Farr, Barbara Lee, and now senator Tammy Baldwin. The motion to actually refer it to the Judicial Committee to further the process included "yay" votes by such Democrats as Gabby Giffords, Henry Waxman, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, Jesse Jackson, Rahm Emmaneul, Jim Clyburn, and most others.

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    Re: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    What has he done that is unconstitutional and illegal? What executive orders? What is this "point"?

    i guess that is what we are going to find out...isnt it?

    those on the left are aghast....what laws? what has he done?

    those on the right are perplexed that those on the left cant see through their rose colored glasses

    so....we will get a judge, and a federal court to decide

    or at least i think that is where this will end up....
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Re: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Which ones "violate the legal jurisdiction of the office"? There is a lot of vague terms here but no specifics.
    Separation of powers

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    Re: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Simple question: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?
    I realize president Obama has not utilized numbers wise the quantity of executive orders that a lot of his predecessors have. But I think the quality of his executive orders has exceeded all other presidents and gone possibly beyond the realm of being constitutional. Even so, I am not a fan of the lawsuit. Congress as a co-equal branch has the power to reign in the president if it had the desire. The fact the Republican House wants to and the Democratic controlled Senate does not, does not negate the power of congress if congress as a whole wanted to act.



    If the Democrats in congress are willing to let the president have his way, a sort of an imperial president. That is not the courts problem, it is a political problem. I doubt if a federal judge will even hear the case. But if one does I am sure he will throw it right back at congress and basically say if you think the president has overstepped his bounds, then use your own powers and do something about it.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  8. #28
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    Re: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?

    I just wish Republicans would cut the pretext.

    This is nothing but a way to appease their hardliners and raise campaign cash.

    For a legislative body that cannot even ban it's own members from insider trading, Congress of any party affiliation has no right to sit in judgement of anyone as one of the most corrupt institutions on the planet.

  9. #29
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    Re: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    Actually, they're pretty much identical on everything. Foreign policy, immigration, drug policy, expansion of executive power, Bush wrote the Patriot Act while Obama extended it, government surveillance, the debt ceiling, both have significantly increased the national debt, civil liberties, and more. Face it: you like Obama because he's a Democrat. It's better to acknowledge it and fix it than to continue denying it.

    Here's an article you should look into:

    The Humble Libertarian: Bush 2.0: 100 Ways Barack Obama Is Just Like George W. Bush
    One is a religious fanatic who thinks god told him to wage holy war on the Muslims, fought to oppress gays, opposed gender equality, and had as his only economic policy helping his rich buddies get richer at the expense of everyone else, which is why we have a big recession. The other did not do those things. Turns out there are a lot more issues than just the ones you care about.

    I return to my original question, though. What are congressional Republicans asking the court to do?
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  10. #30
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    Re: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Simple question: Do You Approve of the GOP's Lawsuit Against Obama?
    I voted yes. I seriously doubt Obama will still be in office when this lawsuit reaches the SCOTUS. I agree with the lawsuit because it will set straight what a president can and can't use an executive order for. I seriously doubt you would want a president who is actually conservative to use executive orders to deny funding to planned parenthood and use another executive order to stop the affordable care act without the approval of congress and senate.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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