View Poll Results: In politics does Intent trump Outcome?

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Thread: In politics does Intent trump Outcome?

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    In politics does Intent trump Outcome?



    In medicine, we quickly learn that what matters is outcomes-not intent to help. Things are too important to think otherwise.

    In politics-that distinction is often blurred. Programs that claim to improve education but dont. The war on poverty that failed to lower poverty. The war on drugs.

    Intent often is seen as somehow benevolent and superior to whatever the actual outcomes are. Rhetoric is used as a shield to objective failure, turning questions of fact into questions of motive, etc.

    What do you say?
    Last edited by US Conservative; 08-05-14 at 12:45 AM.

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    Re: In politics does Intent trump Outcome?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    In medicine, we quickly learn that what matters is outcomes-not intent to help. Things are too important to think otherwise.

    In politics-that distinction is often blurred. Programs that claim to improve education but dont. The war on poverty that failed to lower poverty. The war on drugs.

    Intent often is seen as somehow benevolent and superior to whatever the actual outcomes are. Rhetoric is used as a shield to objective failure, turning questions of fact into questions of motive, etc.

    What do you say?
    No, that's why policies like low taxes for the rich need to go, they were of good intent, but trickle down is now proven to not work, so we need to deal with the outcome of failure and move on to something else. This is just one topic that concept could be attributed to. MIC is another, privatizing prisons and schools, the war on drugs, the war on terror, leaving infrastructure to the states, and such would be others, I'm sure there're more.
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    Re: In politics does Intent trump Outcome?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    In medicine, we quickly learn that what matters is outcomes-not intent to help. Things are too important to think otherwise.

    In politics-that distinction is often blurred. Programs that claim to improve education but dont [sic]. The war on poverty that failed to lower poverty. The war on drugs.

    Intent often is seen as somehow benevolent and superior to whatever the actual outcomes are. Rhetoric is used as a shield to objective failure, turning questions of fact into questions of motive, etc.

    What do you say?
    This seems to me, these days, to be one of the defining differences between the political right and the political wrong.

    Conservatism generally seems to be result-driven. Those of us on the right judge policies by the results that they produce, or at the very least, by plausible expectations of results.


    The wrong seems to be driven by intent and “caring”, with no regard to results. Liberals very often put forth policies of which any rational analysis will indicate will produce adverse results, and which, in practice, do produce adverse results. Liberals judge these policies, not by the results that they produce, but by the claimed intent behind them, and how, putting forth these policies shows that they “care” about the problem that they claim to be addressing.
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    Re: In politics does Intent trump Outcome?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    This seems to me, these days, to be one of the defining differences between the political right and the political wrong.

    Conservatism generally seems to be result-driven. Those of us on the right judge policies by the results that they produce, or at the very least, by plausible expectations of results.


    The wrong seems to be driven by intent and “caring”, with no regard to results. Liberals very often put forth policies of which any rational analysis will indicate will produce adverse results, and which, in practice, do produce adverse results. Liberals judge these policies, not by the results that they produce, but by the claimed intent behind them, and how, putting forth these policies shows that they “care” about the problem that they claim to be addressing.
    I think you are on to something. As an example, the department of agricultures (wtf?) Head Start program has failed by all objective measures-it helped nobody but is very expensive-and they hid the results of their OWN studies hoping to hide the fact.

    I saw this, and advocated closing the program-to be replaced with more effective programs-but was then attacked as evil, etc by guess who. Its like they didn't care...or perhaps they are there not to solve problems but to advance an agenda.

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    Re: In politics does Intent trump Outcome?

    Totally recognize this from the Rush Limbaugh show. The notion being that liberals care more about good intentions without regard to results. It sounds good and for someone with a lean such as mine, it does tickle my ears. It's way simplistic, though. Can we really say that no liberal policy, law or program hasn't succeeded? Without liberal influence, would we have public schools, roads or parks? As critical as I can be of environmentalists, can we really deny that putting a clamp on industrial air and water pollution is or has been a bad thing? As always, anything can be taken too far, and that's what I usually object to but we need to be able to acknowledge the good where it happens, without regard to party, and build on it (and also walk away from it when it's proven to be more of a burden than a help).
    Last edited by X Factor; 08-05-14 at 01:55 AM.
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    Re: In politics does Intent trump Outcome?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post


    In medicine, we quickly learn that what matters is outcomes-not intent to help. Things are too important to think otherwise.

    In politics-that distinction is often blurred. Programs that claim to improve education but dont. The war on poverty that failed to lower poverty. The war on drugs.

    Intent often is seen as somehow benevolent and superior to whatever the actual outcomes are. Rhetoric is used as a shield to objective failure, turning questions of fact into questions of motive, etc.

    What do you say?
    If your intent is not to help, then how can you have a good outcome?
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: In politics does Intent trump Outcome?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    If your intent is not to help, then how can you have a good outcome?
    If my intent wasn't to help, why would I care about the outcome? You have it backwards.

    This begs the question-why support it if it doesn't work?

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    Re: In politics does Intent trump Outcome?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Totally recognize this from the Rush Limbaugh show. The notion being that liberals care more about good intentions without regard to results. It sounds good and for someone with a lean such as mine, it does tickle my ears. It's way simplistic, though. Can we really say that no liberal policy, law or program hasn't succeeded? Without liberal influence, would we have public schools, roads or parks? As critical as I can be of environmentalists, can we really deny that putting a clamp on industrial air and water pollution is or has been a bad thing? As always, anything can be taken too far, and that's what I usually object to but we need to be able to acknowledge the good where it happens, without regard to party, and build on it (and also walk away from it when it's proven to be more of a burden than a help).
    So from my question you somehow got to the conclusion that nothing EVER done by the left has ever helped? Bringing up public schools-thats a great example-its not about quality of education, if it was there would be higher standards and support for vouchers and school choice. The lefts support is about keeping teachers unions votes. There is no other explanation.

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    Re: In politics does Intent trump Outcome?

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    No, that's why policies like low taxes for the rich need to go, they were of good intent, but trickle down is now proven to not work, so we need to deal with the outcome of failure and move on to something else. This is just one topic that concept could be attributed to. MIC is another, privatizing prisons and schools, the war on drugs, the war on terror, leaving infrastructure to the states, and such would be others, I'm sure there're more.
    Taxes on the wealthy are low in the US because taxes are low in general. The US has the most progressive tax code in the OECD. That's the opposite of what "trickle down" implies. Trickle down economics has never even been proposed, much less enacted.

    With low taxes, the US economy is doing great by international standards, and that includes the middle class.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: In politics does Intent trump Outcome?

    In politics does Intent trump Outcome?-libertarianism-1-jpg
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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