Prostitution

CRUE CAB said:

Hyperbole. As long as you fat ugly people are not breaking the law with your hippie friends, I dont care.

Click to expand...

If prostitution is decriminalized or legal....there's no difference.

Lursa said:

Unlike others, I dont believe in treating women like children, unable to make their own decisions. You pretend to worry about them at the hands of criminal abortionists and pimps. I believe in letting them choose their own destinies. Women are smart and capable and can make their own choices. We all make good and bad choices in life and reap both benefits and consequences.

Click to expand...

Particularly when it's beyond proof that having prostitution illegal isn't stopping the criminal acts of pimps and others upon prostitutes, who then seem to have no recourse because they themselves are also criminals.

How is it that they can't figure this simple stuff out, and yet they think they should be in control of women's choices?

Bicycle said:

You think legalized prostitution reduces crime?

Yeah, and abortion makes people nicer to kids.

Click to expand...

Of course it does. It reduces the crime of prostitution :mrgreen:

And do you have any data on your last sentence? It's pretty out there.

Lursa said:

If prostitution is decriminalized or legal....there's no difference.

Click to expand...

Sure there is, when you lean on our street sign looking for money out of willingness to blow the next dude that rounds the corner with a 10 spot. Wont tolerate you and your customers in our area.

Bicycle said:

The theory is ridiculous. All that happens when you legalize activity that facilitates HUMAN RIGHTS violations is you make it more difficult for the women (and children) who are victimized to get help.

Click to expand...

Wow, you just make women into victims at the drop of a hat. I have more respect for my gender than that.

You are just one big whine that IMO, is probably just hiding your judgement and wish to control other people's behavior.

No, it's a human rights violation by its very nature. You are purchasing and selling women's bodies.

"The redefinition of prostitution as 'commercial sex work' is just an attempt to legitimize sex trafficking. It should come as no surprise the ACLU and Planned Parenthood have signed on. While both groups are considered 'pro-woman', it is odd that they support an industry of flagrant abuse of women...

"There are a multitude of studies to show the high level of abuse that prostitutes suffer. Women are literally bought and sold as property. The incidence of drug addiction is high among women, partially explaining why they became prostitutes to begin with.

"The argument for legalization goes something like this. Prostitution will happen anyway but legalization and regulation will help stem the abuses. The argument has 50,000 foot appeal. Using the same logic, slavery (which still exists in many places) should be legalized so underground slaves can be given some measure of human rights. The fact that the ACLU and the bevy of left-wing international groups don't argue for the legalization of slavery shows the logical inconsistency of their position."

John Bambenek Should Prostitution Be Legal? - Legal Prostitution - ProCon.org

"Legalized prostitution creates the same problems that legalized marijuana does. While prostitution is legal, forced prostitution is not. The latter occurs, and the new German law unintentionally makes it harder to hunt down human traffickers, especially from Eastern Europe and Africa. Similarly, it is harder to combat under-aged prostitution. With legalized marijuana and prostitution, Amsterdam became a magnet for human traffickers, drug traders and petty criminals. This is not the world legalization’s proponents envisioned, but it happened."

Thomas Kleine-Brockhoff Senior Director at the German Marshall Fund of the United States, wrote in his Jan. 29, 2007 article "Legalization Opens Criminal Floodgates" posted on the PostGlobal website.

The US Department of State, wrote in its Nov. 24, 2004 article "The Link Between Prostitution and Sex Trafficking" provided on its website:

"The U.S. Government adopted a strong position against legalized prostitution in a December 2002 National Security Presidential Directive based on evidence that prostitution is inherently harmful and dehumanizing, and fuels trafficking in persons, a form of modern-day slavery. Prostitution and related activities—including pimping and patronizing or maintaining brothels—fuel the growth of modern-day slavery by providing a façade behind which traffickers for sexual exploitation operate.

Where prostitution is legalized or tolerated, there is a greater demand for human trafficking victims and nearly always an increase in the number of women and children trafficked into commercial sex slavery..."

http://prostitution.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=1315

Bicycle said:

No, it's a human rights violation by its very nature. You are purchasing and selling women's bodies.

Click to expand...

It is not a human rights violation if both parties agree. You are projecting.

"The redefinition of prostitution as 'commercial sex work' is just an attempt to legitimize sex trafficking. It should come as no surprise the ACLU and Planned Parenthood have signed on. While both groups are considered 'pro-woman', it is odd that they support an industry of flagrant abuse of women...

Click to expand...

Your premise is flawed because you keep trying to paint women who make the decision to be prostitutes as victims.

"There are a multitude of studies to show the high level of abuse that prostitutes suffer. Women are literally bought and sold as property. The incidence of drug addiction is high among women, partially explaining why they became prostitutes to begin with.

Click to expand...

Where are your sources? Prostitutes that sell their bodies in countries where prostitution is outlawed I would assume do suffer the most since there is no regulation or protection offered to them, unlike in countries where it is legalized.

"The argument for legalization goes something like this. Prostitution will happen anyway but legalization and regulation will help stem the abuses.
The argument has 50,000 foot appeal. Using the same logic, slavery (which still exists in many places) should be legalized so underground slaves can be given some measure of human rights. The fact that the ACLU and the bevy of left-wing international groups don't argue for the legalization of slavery shows the logical inconsistency of their position."

Click to expand...

Wow, lmao that is one hell of a strawman.
Slavery, unlike prostitution, is not a mutual agreement. Fallacy defeated. Moving on.

John Bambenek Should Prostitution Be Legal? - Legal Prostitution - ProCon.org

Click to expand...

What purpose does this link serve?
It's nothing but opinions being posted. On top of that it is nothing but opinions be posted that appeal to not only why prostitution should be outlawed, but it why it should be legalized.

CRUE CAB said:

Sure there is, when you lean on our street sign looking for money out of willingness to blow the next dude that rounds the corner with a 10 spot. Wont tolerate you and your customers in our area.

Click to expand...

So then it's your opinion again...not based on it being legal? You keep bouncing back and forth.

And apparently keep imagining more and more about what 'may go on.' It's a similar thing I've found in the SSM threads...all their thoughts and focus is on a sex act and not the actual people. Makes you wonder where their thoughts are when they look anywhere....sexualizing everything?

And then that's what they 'believe' everyone else is thinking too.....no wonder they seem to see perverts and deviants everywhere!

Victims are the bread and butter of the prostitution business.

Please share how pro-female you are again, as you fight hard to draft more and more into prostitution and abortion clinics...

As our own State Department says:

"Where prostitution is legalized or tolerated, there is a greater demand for human trafficking victims and nearly always an increase in the number of women and children trafficked into commercial sex slavery..."

Bicycle said:

Victims are the bread and butter of the prostitution business.

Click to expand...

Yes,when left to be governed by criminals prostitutes often suffer.

Please share how pro-female you are again, as you fight hard to draft more and more into prostitution and abortion clinics...

Click to expand...

Please employ more fallacies to stay afloat.

Zinthaniel said:

Yes,when left to be governed by criminals prostitutes often suffer.



Please employ more fallacies to stay afloat.

Click to expand...

No, the State Department and others make it perfectly clear that legalized prostitution leads to increases in human trafficking and child abuse. You can see those statements above. Perhaps you should read them again.

Bicycle said:

As our own State Department says:

"Where prostitution is legalized or tolerated, there is a greater demand for human trafficking victims and nearly always an increase in the number of women and children trafficked into commercial sex slavery..."

Click to expand...

Except evidence of the contrary is true.

Our government makes a lot of claims. You are appealing to it as an authority on the subject which is a fallacy. You are unable to argue your point without running to other people's opinions.

Our government in some places is refusing to treat certain citizens equal as well, is their will and authority an infallible source of moral reference? I certainly think not.

CRUE CAB said:

Sure there is, when you lean on our street sign looking for money out of willingness to blow the next dude that rounds the corner with a 10 spot. Wont tolerate you and your customers in our area.

Click to expand...

Not what you said. You said:

CRUE CAB said:

Hyperbole. As long as you fat ugly people are not breaking the law with your hippie friends, I dont care.

Click to expand...

If prostitution is made legal, then Nina and the others would not be breaking the law in and of itself, save for maybe zoning laws. Therefore by your own words you should not care.

Bicycle said:

No, the State Department and others make it perfectly clear that legalized prostitution leads to increases in human trafficking and child abuse. You can see those statements above. Perhaps you should read them again.

Click to expand...

I read them. I can point out other government official statments then contrary to what one would consider "human rights" both now and in the past. Your appeal to authority is a fallacy.

Zinthaniel said:

Except evidence of the contrary is true.

Our government makes a lot of claims. You are appealing to it as an authority on the subject which is a fallacy. You are on able to argue your point without running to other people's opinions.

Our government is some places is refusing to treat certain citizens as equal as well, is their will and authority an infallible source of moral reference? I certainly think not.

Click to expand...

No, evidence of the contrary doesn't exist. It is your OPINION that it fosters happiness joy and love..but the reality, which the State Dept. sees, is that it increases human trafficking.

Zinthaniel said:

I read them. I can point out other government official statments then contrary to what one would consider "human rights" both now and in the past. Your appeal to authority is a fallacy.

Click to expand...

That ^^ is a fallacy. My statement is not.

Bicycle said:

No, evidence of the contrary doesn't exist.

Click to expand...

Yes it does, if we are still discussing your absurd notion that legalizing prostitution increase crime. I have already provided the evidence to the contrary. The biggest piece being that our own country that outlaws prostitution not only has high rates of rape and murder - higher than those countries that do legalize it, but it also still has prostitution. Unregulated prostitution which leaves prostitutes at the whims of criminals overseers.

It is your OPINION that it fosters happiness joy and love..but the reality, which the State Dept. sees, is that it increases human trafficking.

Click to expand...

More hyperbole and fallacies.

Bicycle said:

That ^^ is a fallacy. My statement is not.

Click to expand...

No actually it's not. That is me pointing out your fallacy and this above quote ^^ is childish deflection.

Zinthaniel said:

Yes it does, if we are still discussing your absurd notion that legalizing prostitution increase crime. I have already provided the evidence to the contrary. The biggest piece being that our own country that outlaws prostitution not only has high rates of rape and murder - higher than those countries that do legalize it, but it also still has prostitution. Unregulated prostitution which leaves prostitutes at the whims of criminals overseers.





More hyperbole and fallacies.

Click to expand...

My notion that I got from the State department, and others...

The hyperbole and fallacy come from you.

Zinthaniel said:

No actually it's not. That is me pointing out your fallacy and this above quote ^^ is childish deflection.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, did you provide some sort of evidence that the State Department is lying about this?

No?

shrubnose said:

Try convincing all of the far right Evangelicals to support that idea.

Lots of luck.

They'd like to stop you from drinking beer and dancing.

All for your own good (To keep you from going to Hell.), of course.

Click to expand...

Andrea Dworkin, an author, activist, and former prostitute, stated in her Oct. 31, 1992 speech at the University of Michigan Law School:

"I ask you to think about your own bodies--if you can do so outside the world that the pornographers have created in your minds, the flat, dead, floating mouths and vaginas and anuses of women. I ask you to think concretely about your own bodies used that way. How sexy is it? Is it fun? The people who defend prostitution and pornography want you to feel a kinky little thrill every time you think of something being stuck in a woman. I want you to feel the delicate tissues in her body that are being misused. I want you to feel what it feels like when it happens over and over and over and over and over and over and over again: because that is what prostitution is.

"...And so, many of us are saying that prostitution is intrinsically abusive. Let me be clear. I am talking to you about prostitution per se, without more violence, without extra violence, without a woman being hit, without a woman being pushed. Prostitution in and of itself is an abuse of a woman's body. Those of us who say this are accused of being simple-minded. But prostitution is very simple. And if you are not simple-minded, you will never understand it. The more complex you manage to be, the further away from the reality you will be--the safer you will be, the happier you will be, the more fun you will have discussing the issue of prostitution. In prostitution, no woman stays whole."

maquiscat said:

Not what you said. You said:


If prostitution is made legal, then Nina and the others would not be breaking the law in and of itself, save for maybe zoning laws. Therefore by your own words you should not care.

Click to expand...

Well, it aint legal now is it.