• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

Mutliple Choice - Check all statement you see as true:

  • A white person should not teach minority children.

    Votes: 2 3.3%

  • A person of a minority race cannot teach white children.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Race is not a factor on a person's competency to teach anything.

    Votes: 37 61.7%

  • Making the race of a teacher an issue is in itself racist.

    Votes: 18 30.0%

  • I have a completely different perspective and will explain.

    Votes: 3 5.0%
  • Total voters
    60
Zinthaniel said:
He wouldn't be inherently better academically, assuming in your hypothetical he has a degree in African studies like your hypothetical white man, but as man who is black he is going added benefit of being apart of the race and experiencing what it is like to that race and assumingly be raised at least partially in the culture, his father wasn't completely absent from his life - and therefore have the added benefit of relatability with not only his students, who typically are going to be African, but also relatable to the course.

Same with any other study. A white man can absolutely teach Asian studies. Sure why not? But it's intellectually dishonest to say with a straight face that an Asian professor doesn't have the added benefit of actually being Asian when teaching Asian studies.

And a Kenyan can teach European studies - our human history, our cultures and all anthropological studies are quantified in text books. So an African can explain the culture of Europe. Can dive into it's many idiosyncrasies. But again it's dishonest to claim that and African will have to same relatbitbilty and expertise on European studies than an actual European who was raised in the European culture, who is European their self.
Click to expand...

The fact is that an Asian may or may not know the subject matter of what he is supposed to teach. A black man, an east Indian, an Arab, a Hispanic who did know the subject matter would be a far superior teacher of Asian studies than an Asian who didn't know his stuff. A black man who spent most of his life in a gang dominated, rat infested tenement culture and who has a huge chip on his shoulder because he is convinced he didn't get any breaks because he was black and who thinks THAT is the black experience might be a far worse candidate to teach cultural studies to black kids than would be the black man (or anybody else) who experienced none of that growing up but who does understand how a black man does not have to use his blackness as any kind of crutch but can succeed in life in ways to meet all his hopes or expectations. As would be a white man who understands the culture in the same way.
 
joG said:
Why is it a different debate?
If the school is private, it is up to the parents.
Click to expand...

It is a different debate because it is a different subject. This subject is whether a white man can be as competent to teach cultural studies as a black man.
 
AlbqOwl said:
The fact is that an Asian may or may not know the subject matter of what he is supposed to teach.
Click to expand...

Your rebuttal fails with your first sentence. I never at any point suggested that simply being the race qualifies anyone to teach any subject. They would first need the degree. With that degree in the study of their race they have the added experience of being that race of being raised within the idiosyncrasies, culture, and community that is apart of that study.

And then the rest of your post comes off as a hyperbolic rant that cuts both ways. A white man who harbors white supremacist ideologies would be just as incompetent as a black professor with a chip on his shoulder.
 
Zinthaniel said:
Your rebuttal fails with your first sentence. I never at any point suggested that simply being the race qualifies anyone to teach any subject. They would first need the degree. With that degree in the study of their race they have the added experience of being that race of being raised within the idiosyncrasies, culture, and community that is apart of that study.

And then the rest of your post comes off as a hyperbolic rant that cuts both ways. A white man who harbors white supremacist ideologies would be just as incompetent as a black professor with a chip on his shoulder.
Click to expand...

I think you should re-read my post again as you have drawn some really illogical and flawed conclusions about what I said and what I intended to say and what I didn't say.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I think you should re-read my post again as you have drawn some really illogical and flawed conclusions about what I said and what I intended to say and what I didn't say.
Click to expand...

If your contention stems from these first two lines -

"The fact is that an Asian may or may not know the subject matter of what he is supposed to teach. A black man, an east Indian, an Arab, a Hispanic who did know the subject matter would be a far superior teacher of Asian studies than an Asian who didn't know his stuff. "

Then you misunderstood me first. There is no reason why an Asian who has attained a degree in Asian studies and who was also raised in Asian culture, is Asian, and is the product of an Asian family who themselves are inundated in Asian culture wouldn't not only know the subject of the course but also have the extra knowledge inherent in being raised within the culture which is the subject of the study. It's a logical conclusion.
 
Kal'Stang said:
It is sad that racism exists among all the races of man but it is really sad that people with your ideology keeps Racism alive. Congratulations on being a part of that problem.
Click to expand...

Racial bigotry =/= racism. The former is an individual act, the latter is a social construct dependent upon and defined by social power dynamics. When racial bigotry is supported by national or global social power dynamics, it is racism. Without the support of social power dynamics (at a scale that permeates all sectors of society), racial bigotry is insignificant regarding societal impacts, and thereby very different.


I have a question for you:

Do you believe the preservation of the "white race" and "white culture" is a just cause?
 
Last edited:
ecofarm said:
I have a question for you:

Do you believe the preservation of the "white race" and "white culture" is a just cause?
Click to expand...
What is that suppose to mean? Are you attempting to build a strawman?

Cultures change with time and random influence. How does one even believe there is any culture to "preserve?"
 
AlbqOwl said:
I think you should re-read my post again as you have drawn some really illogical and flawed conclusions about what I said and what I intended to say and what I didn't say.
Click to expand...

I had hitched onto the Fresno school question, because it is silly to think that Whites, Blacks or Fusions from similar social backgrounds could be more or less capable of pretty basic teaching, if they have studied it. That seems a silly question.
 
Lord of Planar said:
What is that suppose to mean? Are you attempting to build a strawman?

Cultures change with time and random influence. How does one even believe there is any culture to "preserve?"
Click to expand...

It's a question. I'm not allowed to ask questions? If he says no, I've no intention of arguing about it.

Preserve as in keep other races out, not as in stagnate.
 
ecofarm said:
Racial bigotry =/= racism. The former is an individual act, the latter is a social construct dependent upon and defined by social power dynamics. When racial bigotry is supported by social power dynamics, it becomes racism.
Click to expand...
I disagree. I see racial bigotry as a prejudiced based on appearance. I see racism is specifically believing one race is superior to another. I don't think my beliefs are wrong in this regard.
 
ecofarm said:
It's a question. I'm not allowed to ask questions? If he says no, I've no intention of arguing about it.

Preserve as in keep other races out, not as in stagnate.
Click to expand...
Well, sorry. I can't relate. I don't think like that. I guess you do though.
 
joG said:
I had hitched onto the Fresno school question, because it is silly to think that Whites, Blacks or Fusions from similar social backgrounds could be more or less capable of pretty basic teaching, if they have studied it. That seems a silly question.
Click to expand...

Agreed. That has been my point the whole time. The issue should never be whether a person has the right skin color to teach a course, but whether he knows his material and can competently teach it. And if the white guy happens to be the one who is the most competent, the white guy should get the job. And if he knows his stuff and can teach it, his skin color will be of absolutely no importance whatsoever to his class.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I disagree. I see racial bigotry as a prejudiced based on appearance. I see racism is specifically believing one race is superior to another. I don't think my beliefs are wrong in this regard.
Click to expand...

I believe that position is racism apologism. I understand if you disagree.


Lord of Planar said:
Well, sorry. I can't relate. I don't think like that. I guess you do though.
Click to expand...

You don't think like what?

I don't believe in a "white culture", but some people do. If you don't mind, I'll wait for his answer.
 
Mason66 said:
You think it is a rule that whites can't teach minority kids?
Click to expand...

If that's what you get from reading my post, I think it is accurate to say, you need some teaching regardless of the color of the teacher.
 
joG said:
And other local taxes go to paying for the school too?
Click to expand...

Probably, but what is your point? Local communities still have sway on school policies for the most part. I'd be surprised if this wasn't the case in CA.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Agreed. That has been my point the whole time. The issue should never be whether a person has the right skin color to teach a course, but whether he knows his material and can competently teach it. And if the white guy happens to be the one who is the most competent, the white guy should get the job. And if he knows his stuff and can teach it, his skin color will be of absolutely no importance whatsoever to his class.
Click to expand...

Agree as far as quality matters. There is no reason why this district cannot recruit a black person to teach a course that relates specifically to its own issues.
 
Cephus said:
Of course, it's the smurfiest recognized race! Don't be smurfist!
Click to expand...

Smurfs are blue. Is that a minority color? This little fella' looks like he could teach cultural studies.

Smurfs.jpg
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Agree as far as quality matters. There is no reason why this district cannot recruit a black person to teach a course that relates specifically to its own issues.
Click to expand...

Yes there is because it assumes a black person is more qualified based purely on the color of his skin. He isn't. He can be just as out of touch with the experience of many black Americans as a white man can be out of touch with the experience of many white Americans. It is as racist to think that all the people of a particular race in any given class will see things the same, think alike, or share a common experience as it is foolish to assume that a person who hasn't experienced something is incapable of understanding it. Cultural studies should not be about individual experience. Cultural studies should be focused on history and the effects of various dynamics and policy on society as a whole. The teacher should be competent to teach that, and skin color is 100% unimportant re whether he or she will be competent.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I disagree. I see racial bigotry as a prejudiced based on appearance. I see racism is specifically believing one race is superior to another. I don't think my beliefs are wrong in this regard.
Click to expand...

I'm in a good mood, so I'm gonna try to explain why that statement is apologism:

Superiority is inherent to bigotry. Pretending otherwise apologizes for bigotry in attempting to claim it is something other than false superiority.

Do you believe superiority is not inherent to bigotry? If that's the case, you're wrong and you need to re-examine the concept.
 
AlbqOwl said:
So here we are. Who agrees that a white man cannot teach cultural studies? And can a black man teach Latino and SoutheastAsian studies if a white man cannot teach black studies? Or has the world gone absolutely nuts?

Black community leaders in Fresno, Calif., are urging the Fresno Unified School District to re-evaluate the hiring of a white guy to​
​
teach three cultural studies courses at a brand-new middleschool that will overwhelmingly serve minority students.

Rutherford B. Gaston Middle School — named after the city’s first blackprincipal — will open in a few short weeks. It’s the first middle school in the immediate, poverty-ridden vicinity since 1979.

The protesters are unhappy because the school has chosen to hire Peter Beck, aperson with white skin, over other, unidentified candidates, The Fresno Bee reports.

Beck will teach African-American studies, Latino studies and Southeast Asian studies. . . .

. . .“We’re just saying what the community wants,” said Rev. Karen Crozier, oneof the activists. “We didn’t fight for a white male or female teacher to educate our babies.”

Crozier, who appears to be a professor at Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary, also suggested that a white person cannot teach minority children in this instance because of racism. . . .

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/29/black-leaders-in-fresno-oppose-white-cultural-studies-teacher/​

Click to expand...

option 3 please!

"Race is not a factor on a person's competency to teach anything."
teaching will be about the competence, experience and ability of the person, not thier race.(also the peoples willingness to learn)

any person may be very in touch or out of touch with this subject matter and assuming they actually will or will not based on skin color is just as dumb, dishonest and uneducated as thinking a minority can't be racist.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Yes there is because it assumes a black person is more qualified based purely on the color of his skin. He isn't. He can be just as out of touch with the experience of many black Americans as a white man can be out of touch with the experience of many white Americans. It is as racist to think that all the people of a particular race in any given class will see things the same, think alike, or share a common experience as it is foolish to assume that a person who hasn't experienced something is incapable of understanding it. Cultural studies should not be about individual experience. Cultural studies should be focused on history and the effects of various dynamics and policy on society as a whole. The teacher should be competent to teach that, and skin color is 100% unimportant re whether he or she will be competent.
Click to expand...

Being individuals will say that no one has the same exact experiences, but with that said, black history does have its own special history hence the name black before the word history. I see nothing wrong with the recruiting of a well qualified black man to teach a course specific to Black American History if this community so desires.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom