View Poll Results: Mutliple Choice - Check all statement you see as true:

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70. You may not vote on this poll
  • A white person should not teach minority children.

    2 2.86%
  • A person of a minority race cannot teach white children.

    2 2.86%
  • Race is not a factor on a person's competency to teach anything.

    41 58.57%
  • Making the race of a teacher an issue is in itself racist.

    22 31.43%
  • I have a completely different perspective and will explain.

    3 4.29%
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Thread: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I don't know. I got most of my formal education some decades ago but I had white, black, Hispanic, Asian, and Native American teachers/professors. On the Eastern seaboard you have a lot of states with very small minority populations.
    That's great, however:

    Fast Facts



    In general, 20% of your professors will be of another race and 80% will be white. I doubt those numbers were any different 20 years ("decades") ago when minority graduation rates were even lower. So no, this isn't by any means an institutional thing such as "Whites need not apply". It's one incident, in one school. Your attempt to try and paint it as some sort of institutionally based attack on whites is laughable. If anything, statistics for hiring closely reflect society as a whole and not a bias in either direction. It's a nice try at the old "poor whitey" shtick.
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I know. I PMed Red A to ask him if he could fix it. Don't know if he's still around though. Can you fix it? Sorry about that everybody--I failed to check the multiple choice option before I hit the post button.
    Sorry, once a poll is made it can't be altered.
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    I wouldn't call it cultural confirmation on my part necessarily, at least I feel that term is a bit too strong. I don't believe in discrimination of any kind, but at the same time African studies - me being a college student and seeing it first hand - are primarily comprised of African students. For the students who are black the study is not purely textual it is also sentimental, experienced, and it resonates within them because they are African. And I can then see why a African students would prefer to have a teacher who can share that intimate quality of the curriculum with them, because he/she too would also be experiencing the class in that way.

    At the same time such a teacher may not have the purely objective lens that a white teacher could have on the subject. a teacher who does not have that sort of connection to the course will be able to approach from angles not necessarily capable by teachers who too tightly woven into the subject they are teaching.

    So I see both sides. I understand the knee jerk reaction (about cultural studies that is, the nonsense about not allowing white teachers to teach general ed. to minorities is racist bull****) and I can also see the benefit of having a teacher of another race being able to teach such a course with objectivity. And this is not to say black teachers couldn't be objective, but you get the point.
    Kudos on a well thought out, heart felt, honest, and intelligent post. You certainly provided a perspective I had not included, and if there is anything to quarrel with in it, you have really forced a body to do his/her homework to find a competent rebuttal.

    I have to make a medical taxi run with a family member, but I shall return. Good discussion so far with most of you.
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    So here we are. Who agrees that a white man cannot teach cultural studies? And can a black man teach Latino and SoutheastAsian studies if a white man cannot teach black studies? Or has the world gone absolutely nuts?

    Black community leaders in Fresno, Calif., are urging the Fresno Unified School District to re-evaluate the hiring of a white guy to
    teach three cultural studies courses at a brand-new middleschool that will overwhelmingly serve minority students.

    Rutherford B. Gaston Middle School — named after the city’s first blackprincipal — will open in a few short weeks. It’s the first middle school in the immediate, poverty-ridden vicinity since 1979.

    The protesters are unhappy because the school has chosen to hire Peter Beck, aperson with white skin, over other, unidentified candidates, The Fresno Bee reports.

    Beck will teach African-American studies, Latino studies and Southeast Asian studies. . . .

    . . .“We’re just saying what the community wants,” said Rev. Karen Crozier, oneof the activists. “We didn’t fight for a white male or female teacher to educate our babies.”

    Crozier, who appears to be a professor at Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary, also suggested that a white person cannot teach minority children in this instance because of racism. . . .

    http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/29/black-leaders-in-fresno-oppose-white-cultural-studies-teacher/
    I'm kind of on a fence with this one. I can see the perspective that one who's lived it and studied it would likely be more qualified, and there is a reasonable history of white teachers not properly teaching minorities. On the other hand, this individual might be the exception to the rule. I might instead of demanding another teacher, be demanding a no-fault 120 day probationary period during which time he can be terminated without the usual union style recourse and must leave without incident. Of course, there are problems even within that solution.

    This one isn't an easy one to cipher out. Both sides have valid povs.
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    I'm kind of on a fence with this one. I can see the perspective that one who's lived it and studied it would likely be more qualified, and there is a reasonable history of white teachers not properly teaching minorities. On the other hand, this individual might be the exception to the rule. I might instead of demanding another teacher, be demanding a no-fault 120 day probationary period during which time he can be terminated without the usual union style recourse and must leave without incident. Of course, there are problems even within that solution.

    This one isn't an easy one to cipher out. Both sides have valid povs.
    Well, not really. No matter what race of person they hire, they won't be "part of" at least 2 out of 3 of the cultural studies they're supposed to be teaching. Unless they should only limit it to hiring someone who is multiracial (Latin, Asian, and African -- but no white), in which case they probably didn't experience ANY of those cultures because the social experience of multiracial people is often very different. Or if we put 3 extra teachers on the pay role for only one class each, which seems like a phenomenal waste of money.

    And even if they are the race being discussed in one of those classes, they're no guarantee they experienced the typical culture. I can tell you for damn sure the experience and social orientation of a black person who grew up in the suburbs of MN is in a different world from one who grew up in the inner city. So which black culture are we aiming at? And how is it somehow less of an issue if, say, a black person is teaching about Asian and Latin culture, than it is if a white person is teaching it? How does the black person know more about it? Or are we just presuming white people are the only race that's incapable of understanding social adversity? Tell that to some older women, or men who grew up in poor neighborhoods for that matter.

    The entire premise of the objection is based on a bunch of stereotypes and hypocrisy. They aren't bothered by having a teacher who is a different race than the racial history they're teaching. If they were, they would want to hire a different race teacher for each class or give the job to someone who is partially each of those races (which is stupid and racist in itself, but beside the point).

    Their real objection is simply to a white person. There's really no other explanation for it.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 08-01-14 at 06:48 PM.

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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Well, not really. No matter what race of person they hire, they won't be "part of" at least 2 out of 3 of the cultural studies they're supposed to be teaching. Unless they should only limit it to hiring someone who is multiracial (Latin, Asian, and African -- but no white), in which case they probably didn't experience ANY of those cultures because the social experience of multiracial people is often very different. Or if we put 3 extra teachers on the pay role for only one class each, which seems like a phenomenal waste of money.

    And even if they are the race being discussed in one of those classes, they're no guarantee they experienced the typical culture. I can tell you for damn sure the experience and social orientation of a black person who grew up in the suburbs of MN is in a different world from one who grew up in the inner city. So which black culture are we aiming at? And how is it somehow less of an issue if, say, a black person is teaching about Asian and Latin culture, than it is if a white person is teaching it? How does the black person know more about it? Or are we just presuming white people are the only race that's incapable of understanding social adversity? Tell that to some older women, or men who grew up in poor neighborhoods for that matter.

    The entire premise of the objection is based on a bunch of stereotypes and hypocrisy. They aren't bothered by having a teacher who is a different race than the racial history they're teaching. If they were, they would want to hire a different race teacher for each class or give the job to someone who is partially each of those races (which is stupid and racist in itself, but beside the point).

    Their real objection is simply to a white person. There's really no other explanation for it.
    The experience of minorities is relatively similar in the USA in regards to inequality and racism and such issues, so I disagree with your initial premise. Since in the USA there is a cultural experience of such issues for most minorities, it is relevant.
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    The experience of minorities is relatively similar in the USA in regards to inequality and racism and such issues, so I disagree with your initial premise. Since in the USA there is a cultural experience of such issues for most minorities, it is relevant.
    Not really. I wouldn't debate they experience it at any level of society, but there are lots of completely different social systems that each race can exist in. There's not much commonality at all in the kinds of experiences a black person growing up poor in Alabama and a black person growing up middle class in a Haitian community in New York will have. It's the same way the WASP-y family my dad grew up in is in a different world from the Italian Catholic neighborhood my mother grew up in. They're nothing alike.

    Do they have to have the same kind of social experience as the predominant history they're teaching? Well, that'll be tough, given that the kinds of minority people who come out of college are inherently better off than the most subjugated of their people, not to mention they weren't even alive for most of it and thus have no experience with it at all.

    But even if we just accept that on its face, then, again, what you're saying is that not only has no white person ever experienced social injustice, but they are simply intellectually incapable of understanding it. And if you think that, then perhaps you need to watch some Tim Wise. Heard about him through a black professor, by the way, who (rightfully) made no claims that her Ivy-league educated self had any damn idea what it was like to be a black person at the bottom. Because her social experience was different. Her blackness didn't imbue her with psychic knowledge of every type of black culture in the country.

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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Not really. I wouldn't debate they experience it at any level of society, but there are lots of completely different social systems that each race can exist in. There's not much commonality at all in the kinds of experiences a black person growing up poor in Alabama and a black person growing up middle class in a Haitian community in New York will have. It's the same way the WASP-y family my dad grew up in is in a different world from the Italian Catholic neighborhood my mother grew up in. They're nothing alike.

    Do they have to have the same kind of social experience as the predominant history they're teaching? Well, that'll be tough, given that the kinds of minority people who come out of college are inherently better off than the most subjugated of their people, not to mention they weren't even alive for most of it and thus have no experience with it at all.

    But even if we just accept that on its face, then, again, what you're saying is that not only has no white person ever experienced social injustice, but they are simply intellectually incapable of understanding it. And if you think that, then perhaps you need to watch some Tim Wise. Heard about him through a black professor, by the way, who (rightfully) made no claims that her Ivy-league educated self had any damn idea what it was like to be a black person at the bottom. Because her social experience was different. Her blackness didn't imbue her with psychic knowledge of every type of black culture in the country.
    You're free to cling to your opinions. With the things I've seen, I know you're wrong.

    Now does that mean a white shouldn't be given a chance, I'm not convinced of that. However history and reality offer the idea that they have a reasonable perspective to be concerned about a white MAN (which btw I think also plays very much into it) teach about the culture of minorities.
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I don't know the "institutionalized racism" argument, but I'll attempt to shed some light.

    Minorities cannot be racist against the majority because there are not societal impacts of their racial bigotry regarding systemic injustice/privilege at the social scale in question (national or global). As racism is a social construct, it can only be defined by social factors.

    Now, regarding your incorrect context. You see, the white person can move and no longer be the subject of racial bigotry. A black person cannot move away from racial bigotry present throughout society. Since a white person can move to escape, and a black person cannot, these are not the same situations. Thus, the context to be examined in determining systemic injustice/privilege is that of national or global.


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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    You're free to cling to your opinions. With the things I've seen, I know you're wrong.

    Now does that mean a white shouldn't be given a chance, I'm not convinced of that. However history and reality offer the idea that they have a reasonable perspective to be concerned about a white MAN (which btw I think also plays very much into it) teach about the culture of minorities.
    I'm wrong that there are different cultures in America? I'm wrong that a degreed professional probably didn't experience the same level of subjugation as a poor person who dropped out of high school?

    That's just blatant reality denial.

    Again, why doesn't it bug them that if they hired a minority person, that person wouldn't be from the culture of the other 2 classes they teach? Why is that only a big deal if the person is white?

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