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Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

Mutliple Choice - Check all statement you see as true:

  • A white person should not teach minority children.

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • A person of a minority race cannot teach white children.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Race is not a factor on a person's competency to teach anything.

    Votes: 37 61.7%
  • Making the race of a teacher an issue is in itself racist.

    Votes: 18 30.0%
  • I have a completely different perspective and will explain.

    Votes: 3 5.0%

  • Total voters
    60
There's no way I have the time or the inclination to respond to the OP other than to say, yes, certainly a white person can teach African-American culture, but their teaching would be limited. If anyone were to take a class in African-American culture why the hell would they not want to take the class from an African-American teacher?

Cultural history and cultural studies are important, especially to members of minority cultures. I can't think of a good reason why I'd want a person not of the specific culture teaching a course in a specific culture.
 
That's not an easy estimate. In my neighborhood in central Florida (poor), perhaps 10%. But if I go outside of the university town, to a surrounding (country boy) town, that number goes up drastically.

I suppose it depends on ones definition of a "genuine" racist. I would consider someone that thinks blacks are generally lazy, unethical, etc to be racist, even though they don't sport swastikas. I know people that have black friends, but they will say things like "I only get ripped off by black people". Obviously, that's not true; it's just an ingrained belief that blacks are less trustworthy than whites. Of course, they consider their black friends to be "exceptions", and they would never say to their black friends what they say to me. I would also consider a belief that blacks are generally less intelligent than whites to be racist, even if the person is not a neo-nazi. Then there's those who think "white culture" is superior, or that "white solidarity" is not racist.

I think if you show me 10 white people, I'll show you 2 that have racially bigoted beliefs. If we do this exercise in a small town in central FL, I'll show you 5 or more.

I figure you have a higher standard for "genuine racist" than I.

Go to Chicago and Detroit in the black neighborhoods, or any other black neighborhood, and I bet you get the same thing. Or go to one of the various Asian neighborhoods. Or the Hispanic neighborhoods and they all say the same things as the "whites" do about other races and whites. Guess what, they aint any more racist than anyone else in this country of any color or persuasion. What you call bigoted I call ignorant, or more likely lazy. The proof is their ability to get along with others not like them. Fact is this country is not racist, not by a long shot, and definitely when compared to the rest of the world not even close to racist.


No, just had the misfortune of meeting actual racists, bigoted SOB's no mistaking them for what they really were. They called themselves Kuwaitis, and Saudis ect. The US version of racist and the worlds are two completely different things.
 
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So here we are. Who agrees that a white man cannot teach cultural studies? And can a black man teach Latino and SoutheastAsian studies if a white man cannot teach black studies? Or has the world gone absolutely nuts?

Black community leaders in Fresno, Calif., are urging the Fresno Unified School District to re-evaluate the hiring of a white guy to​
teach three cultural studies courses at a brand-new middleschool that will overwhelmingly serve minority students.

Rutherford B. Gaston Middle School — named after the city’s first blackprincipal — will open in a few short weeks. It’s the first middle school in the immediate, poverty-ridden vicinity since 1979.

The protesters are unhappy because the school has chosen to hire Peter Beck, aperson with white skin, over other, unidentified candidates, The Fresno Bee reports.

Beck will teach African-American studies, Latino studies and Southeast Asian studies. . . .

. . .“We’re just saying what the community wants,” said Rev. Karen Crozier, oneof the activists. “We didn’t fight for a white male or female teacher to educate our babies.”

Crozier, who appears to be a professor at Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary, also suggested that a white person cannot teach minority children in this instance because of racism. . . .

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/29/black-leaders-in-fresno-oppose-white-cultural-studies-teacher/


If the parents are paying tuition, they can choose their teachers, even for stupid reasons.
 
I don't know the "institutionalized racism" argument, but I'll attempt to shed some light.

Link
Link
Link

Yeah...you do know what it is. You use it all the time. I can find many more posts just like those. In fact I was thinking of you specifically when I wrote that particular phrase.

Minorities cannot be racist against the majority because there are not societal impacts of their racial bigotry regarding systemic injustice/privilege at the social scale in question (national or global). As racism is a social construct, it can only be defined by social factors.

Now, regarding your incorrect context. You see, the white person can move and no longer be the subject of racial bigotry. A black person cannot move away from racial bigotry present throughout society. Since a white person can move to escape, and a black person cannot, these are not the same situations. Thus, the context to be examined in determining systemic injustice/privilege is that of national or global.


.02

From the article:

Black community leaders in Fresno, Calif., are urging the Fresno Unified School District to re-evaluate the hiring of a white guy to teach three cultural studies courses at a brand-new middle school that will overwhelmingly serve minority students.

Looks to me like blacks will be the majority in that particular society.

Also:

The largest Fresno racial/ethnic groups are Hispanic (46.9%) followed by White (28.4%) and Asian (13.3%).

Link

Fresno.jpg

PDF Link

Looks to me as if in the Fresno society whites are in the minority.

Let me guess. You'll disregard all this because Fresno isn't the whole of society in the whole of the US? Well, at least you'd be right that it isn't the whole of society of the whole US. But you would also be disregarding the one thing that makes the US so unique. Every single town and state of the US has its own different society. Separate from the rest. New York, society wise, is a heck of a lot different from from Dallas. Dallas, society wise, is a heck of a lot different than San Diego. Detroit, society wise, is a heck of a lot different from Bonners Ferry ID. Heck, Bonners Ferry ID is a heck of a lot different from Sandpoint ID...a town not 30 miles from Bonners Ferry. And so on and so forth.

You can try and twist and turn and spin all you want. Plain fact of the matter is that in Fresno, Black Leaders are attempting to oust a white man from teaching at their school by pressuring the school board. Not because of his credentials or teaching history or some stupid crap he might have posted on FB. But because he is white. And that is racism pure and simple.

And thank you for once again showing that no matter what, there will always be those that will deny the racism that exists in the minority races no matter the evidence put before them. It is sad that racism exists among all the races of man but it is really sad that people with your ideology keeps Racism alive. Congratulations on being a part of that problem.
 
It is sad that racism exists among all the races of man but it is really sad that people with your ideology keeps Racism alive. Congratulations on being a part of that problem.

With all due respect, I think the people keeping racism alive are the ones who deny its existence.

Racism by whites toward others in this country is nonexistent by most any degree of measure.
 
I saw the video of this woman and her supporters in LiveLeak yesterday. She was blatantly racist and I couldn't believe that she may actually get her way on this. They demanded special courses, which they were given, and now they demand that only certain races are qualified to teach them? As if white people are not qualified to teach?

Reverse the names of the races and see what would happen.
This looks like it will be a hoot of a movie:

 
This looks like it will be a hoot of a movie:



A venerable barrel of laughs to be sure. Where the colors reversed, it would be showing 24/7/365 at every White Power and KKK meeting around the country. How ****ing sad.
 
I don't know the "institutionalized racism" argument, but I'll attempt to shed some light.

Minorities cannot be racist against the majority because there are not societal impacts of their racial bigotry regarding systemic injustice/privilege at the social scale in question (national or global). As racism is a social construct, it can only be defined by social factors.

Now, regarding your incorrect context. You see, the white person can move and no longer be the subject of racial bigotry. A black person cannot move away from racial bigotry present throughout society. Since a white person can move to escape, and a black person cannot, these are not the same situations. Thus, the context to be examined in determining systemic injustice/privilege is that of national or global.


.02

So you are saying there is racism against black everywhere in the country.

Did I get that right?
 
Any view of an individual or group that is primarily concerned with the color of their skin is racist on its face. It doesn't matter if the people involved are black, white, yellow or blue, it's still racist.

And your poll isn't multiple choice, I thought you should know.

Is Smurf a recognized race?
 
I guess technically it shouldn't matter, but at the same time I can't help but admit that I would find it strange if an Irish teacher was teaching African Studies. A Chinese teacher teaching European cultural studies. And a African teaching Asian cultural studies, it just seems off.

What comes inherent with a teacher who identifies with the race that the course focuses on is genuine experience of being that race. The knowledge will not be purely text based if an African is teaching African studies.

How would you feel about Obama teaching African-American studies?

He grew up in Hawaii where whites are the minority.

Would he be qualified just because he has darker skin that a white man?
 
I'm kind of on a fence with this one. I can see the perspective that one who's lived it and studied it would likely be more qualified, and there is a reasonable history of white teachers not properly teaching minorities. On the other hand, this individual might be the exception to the rule. I might instead of demanding another teacher, be demanding a no-fault 120 day probationary period during which time he can be terminated without the usual union style recourse and must leave without incident. Of course, there are problems even within that solution.

This one isn't an easy one to cipher out. Both sides have valid povs.

You think it is a rule that whites can't teach minority kids?
 
That's the whole point. The color of one's skin does not qualify him or her for special skills or knowledge or even a common empathy with his/her students. One of the best teachers of Shakespeare I ever had was a guy who was half Japanese and half American Indian. He was positively brilliant. And my professor of European history in college was a black woman and she too was very, very good. Condoleeza Rice was a specialist in Russia when she got her B.A. in political science and she wrote her dissertation for her PhD on communist Czechoslovakia that had almost no black people at the time (or any other ethnic group that Condi claims in her heritage.) Would that disqualify her from teaching a course on communist Europe which I'm pretty sure would be wonderful for anybody, black or white or any other ethnicity, who was blessed to be in one of her classes?
Another thing that people seem to forget is it's not the race of a person if they want someone who "can relate," but the culture from which they were raised.

Still, it's silly I think to say only one color can teach a specific course.

I find the whole notion of anything "race based" as a form of racism.

But...

It did take one Sweathog to relate to the others...




 
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How would you feel about Obama teaching African-American studies?

He grew up in Hawaii where whites are the minority.

Would he be qualified just because he has darker skin that a white man?

He wouldn't be inherently better academically, assuming in your hypothetical he has a degree in African studies like your hypothetical white man, but as man who is black he is going added benefit of being apart of the race and experiencing what it is like to that race and assumingly be raised at least partially in the culture, his father wasn't completely absent from his life - and therefore have the added benefit of relatability with not only his students, who typically are going to be African, but also relatable to the course.

Same with any other study. A white man can absolutely teach Asian studies. Sure why not? But it's intellectually dishonest to say with a straight face that an Asian professor doesn't have the added benefit of actually being Asian when teaching Asian studies.

And a Kenyan can teach European studies - our human history, our cultures and all anthropological studies are quantified in text books. So an African can explain the culture of Europe. Can dive into it's many idiosyncrasies. But again it's dishonest to claim that and African will have to same relatbitbilty and expertise on European studies than an actual European who was raised in the European culture, who is European their self.
 
While I believe that a white teacher is certainly qualified to teach such a course, I can understand and sympathize with this community. My guess is that they want their children to be exposed to positive role models that are also minorities and since only 3% of black teachers teach at the school, it would be nice to see a great black teacher teach about black culture and perhaps inspire them as well as connect on a personal level with them. I believe they feel those role models are lacking in their communities. There is nothing wrong with wanting to have such positive role models within the school systems.
 
So you are saying there is racism against black everywhere in the country.

Did I get that right?

Are you attempting to project absolutes? What a pathetic trap question. Do you realize how stupid absolutes are? Can you only counter an argument if it is absolute and thus irrational? Reaching for a lowest common denominator of logical fallacy? Well, I have bad news for you: absolutes are idiotic and I, as a smart person, do not believe in them.

I'll explain it one more time, for you: Injustice/privilege against blacks is systemic in the US. If you don't know what systemic means, look it up.
 
Believe what you want, but the fact is you have to look long and hard to find a racist in this country, let alone one that's "white". You go to the middle east or elsewhere you find them by just picking up a pebble and toss it into the crowd or go to the local government office. The average US citizen who has not been out of country doesn't know and most likely hasn't seen racism in person, only heard about third hand.

I have to gently disagree. There ARE plenty of racists in this country but they are the ones who demand that skin color be obvious, at the forefront of everybody's consciousness, and deferred to. They are the ones who exploit skin color to the max, who enlist their gullible advocates to make sure that racism is deemed alive, well, increasing, and the most horrible thing that happens in society--there are plenty of folks who profit mightily from the doctrine and a whole big block of people in government who depend on it for their power, prestige, influence, and tenure.

In the context of the OP they are here. You see their posts. They see recognition and deference to skin color as all important and whether people of color actually are educated in the schools as secondary or even immaterial.

Seems to me a good teacher of so-called 'cultural studies' would be teaching the concept that we don't have to be limited by what we are born into or our own experience and would illustrate the many many examples of people of all genders, races, and ethnic groups who have lived lives that demonstrates that truth. The teacher would encourage the students to understand what is required to become a responsible, productive, and successful member of society and that the choice to do that is theirs. And the teacher would understand that self esteem does not come from seeing ourselves as limited by who or what we are, but comes from success in meeting real objectives and goals and would push the students to believe in themselves so that they will do that.

And the skin color of the teacher will not have a damn thing to do with how good he or she is at teaching that.
 
Are you attempting to project absolutes? What a pathetic trap question. Do you realize how stupid absolutes are? Can you only counter an argument if it is absolute and thus irrational? Reaching for a lowest common denominator of logical fallacy? Well, I have bad news for you: absolutes are idiotic and I, as a smart person, do not believe in them.

I'll explain it one more time, for you: Injustice/privilege against blacks is systemic in the US. If you don't know what systemic means, look it up.

You get more ridiculous with every post.

You posted an absolute saying the white man can go anywhere else where there is no racism, but the black man cannot get away from racism as it is everywhere.

That is absolute.

I know what systemic means, I just don't believe it. There are many places a black man can get away from your racist boogie men, so your argument doesn't hold water.
 
If the parents are paying tuition, they can choose their teachers, even for stupid reasons.

But that is a different debate. This one is whether a person can teach cultural studies if he happens to have white skin.
 
But that is a different debate. This one is whether a person can teach cultural studies if he happens to have white skin.

Why is it a different debate?
If the school is private, it is up to the parents.
 
Yeah...you do know what it is. You use it all the time. I can find many more posts just like those. In fact I was thinking of you specifically when I wrote that particular phrase.

My position is not that injustice is "institutionalized", though I used that term once in trying to explain this concept to you. I wouldn't have used that term, but the concept seemed entirely beyond you and I was trying to make it more simple.

Let's not use incorrect terminology any more, ok? I understand you were confused, and you are not misrepresenting me on purpose, it's just that you did not understand the concept. Now, let's see if we can correct this. Here is the proper term, please try to use it in the future so as to not misrepresent your opponent's position. I've told you this before, and you failed to understand, so I'm really hoping that you can grasp this and stop misrepresenting your opponent's position (which is really a scummy thing to do).

Let's remember that you do not get to decide how to frame my position incorrectly. Let's keep in mind that misrepresenting someone else's position is wrong. Here's the real deal, do try to remember this time:

"Systemic racism"

I was trying to define systemic racism for you before, by referring to injustice/privilege existing in institutions, but the concept is not defined by institutions, it's defined by being systemic.

You understand now?

Looks to me as if in the Fresno society whites are in the minority.

Meaningless for two reasons:

1. Social power dynamics are not decided by numbers. They are decided by power. Numbers and power sometimes coincide, but not always. Remember: power, not numbers, is the important part.

2. Societal injustice/privilege is examined at the national or global scale, not local. This is important because it recognizes that whites can escape racial bigotry and blacks cannot.
 
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Why is it a different debate?
If the school is private, it is up to the parents.

From what I gather, this will be a public school.
 
Go to Chicago and Detroit in the black neighborhoods, or any other black neighborhood, and I bet you get the same thing.

I can go there, and I can leave. Even if those cities were controlled by black power (they're not), I could escape the racial bigotry.

Black people cannot escape racial bigotry. White people can. See the difference?
 
I know what systemic means, I just don't believe it. There are many places a black man can get away from your racist boogie men, so your argument doesn't hold water.

No matter where a black person goes, they will suffer injustice/privilege in regard to housing, employment and the justice system. There is no escape.

Blacks must deal with injustice every day of their lives and in every aspect of their lives.

Denying the existence of racism in the US is nonsense.
 
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