View Poll Results: Mutliple Choice - Check all statement you see as true:

Voters
70. You may not vote on this poll
  • A white person should not teach minority children.

    2 2.86%
  • A person of a minority race cannot teach white children.

    2 2.86%
  • Race is not a factor on a person's competency to teach anything.

    41 58.57%
  • Making the race of a teacher an issue is in itself racist.

    22 31.43%
  • I have a completely different perspective and will explain.

    3 4.29%
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Thread: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

  1. #111
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    I'm kind of on a fence with this one. I can see the perspective that one who's lived it and studied it would likely be more qualified, and there is a reasonable history of white teachers not properly teaching minorities. On the other hand, this individual might be the exception to the rule. I might instead of demanding another teacher, be demanding a no-fault 120 day probationary period during which time he can be terminated without the usual union style recourse and must leave without incident. Of course, there are problems even within that solution.

    This one isn't an easy one to cipher out. Both sides have valid povs.
    You think it is a rule that whites can't teach minority kids?

  2. #112
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    That's the whole point. The color of one's skin does not qualify him or her for special skills or knowledge or even a common empathy with his/her students. One of the best teachers of Shakespeare I ever had was a guy who was half Japanese and half American Indian. He was positively brilliant. And my professor of European history in college was a black woman and she too was very, very good. Condoleeza Rice was a specialist in Russia when she got her B.A. in political science and she wrote her dissertation for her PhD on communist Czechoslovakia that had almost no black people at the time (or any other ethnic group that Condi claims in her heritage.) Would that disqualify her from teaching a course on communist Europe which I'm pretty sure would be wonderful for anybody, black or white or any other ethnicity, who was blessed to be in one of her classes?
    Another thing that people seem to forget is it's not the race of a person if they want someone who "can relate," but the culture from which they were raised.

    Still, it's silly I think to say only one color can teach a specific course.

    I find the whole notion of anything "race based" as a form of racism.

    But...

    It did take one Sweathog to relate to the others...




    Last edited by Lord of Planar; 08-02-14 at 01:27 PM.

  3. #113
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    How would you feel about Obama teaching African-American studies?

    He grew up in Hawaii where whites are the minority.

    Would he be qualified just because he has darker skin that a white man?
    He wouldn't be inherently better academically, assuming in your hypothetical he has a degree in African studies like your hypothetical white man, but as man who is black he is going added benefit of being apart of the race and experiencing what it is like to that race and assumingly be raised at least partially in the culture, his father wasn't completely absent from his life - and therefore have the added benefit of relatability with not only his students, who typically are going to be African, but also relatable to the course.

    Same with any other study. A white man can absolutely teach Asian studies. Sure why not? But it's intellectually dishonest to say with a straight face that an Asian professor doesn't have the added benefit of actually being Asian when teaching Asian studies.

    And a Kenyan can teach European studies - our human history, our cultures and all anthropological studies are quantified in text books. So an African can explain the culture of Europe. Can dive into it's many idiosyncrasies. But again it's dishonest to claim that and African will have to same relatbitbilty and expertise on European studies than an actual European who was raised in the European culture, who is European their self.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

  4. #114
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    While I believe that a white teacher is certainly qualified to teach such a course, I can understand and sympathize with this community. My guess is that they want their children to be exposed to positive role models that are also minorities and since only 3% of black teachers teach at the school, it would be nice to see a great black teacher teach about black culture and perhaps inspire them as well as connect on a personal level with them. I believe they feel those role models are lacking in their communities. There is nothing wrong with wanting to have such positive role models within the school systems.

  5. #115
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    So you are saying there is racism against black everywhere in the country.

    Did I get that right?
    Are you attempting to project absolutes? What a pathetic trap question. Do you realize how stupid absolutes are? Can you only counter an argument if it is absolute and thus irrational? Reaching for a lowest common denominator of logical fallacy? Well, I have bad news for you: absolutes are idiotic and I, as a smart person, do not believe in them.

    I'll explain it one more time, for you: Injustice/privilege against blacks is systemic in the US. If you don't know what systemic means, look it up.

  6. #116
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Believe what you want, but the fact is you have to look long and hard to find a racist in this country, let alone one that's "white". You go to the middle east or elsewhere you find them by just picking up a pebble and toss it into the crowd or go to the local government office. The average US citizen who has not been out of country doesn't know and most likely hasn't seen racism in person, only heard about third hand.
    I have to gently disagree. There ARE plenty of racists in this country but they are the ones who demand that skin color be obvious, at the forefront of everybody's consciousness, and deferred to. They are the ones who exploit skin color to the max, who enlist their gullible advocates to make sure that racism is deemed alive, well, increasing, and the most horrible thing that happens in society--there are plenty of folks who profit mightily from the doctrine and a whole big block of people in government who depend on it for their power, prestige, influence, and tenure.

    In the context of the OP they are here. You see their posts. They see recognition and deference to skin color as all important and whether people of color actually are educated in the schools as secondary or even immaterial.

    Seems to me a good teacher of so-called 'cultural studies' would be teaching the concept that we don't have to be limited by what we are born into or our own experience and would illustrate the many many examples of people of all genders, races, and ethnic groups who have lived lives that demonstrates that truth. The teacher would encourage the students to understand what is required to become a responsible, productive, and successful member of society and that the choice to do that is theirs. And the teacher would understand that self esteem does not come from seeing ourselves as limited by who or what we are, but comes from success in meeting real objectives and goals and would push the students to believe in themselves so that they will do that.

    And the skin color of the teacher will not have a damn thing to do with how good he or she is at teaching that.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Are you attempting to project absolutes? What a pathetic trap question. Do you realize how stupid absolutes are? Can you only counter an argument if it is absolute and thus irrational? Reaching for a lowest common denominator of logical fallacy? Well, I have bad news for you: absolutes are idiotic and I, as a smart person, do not believe in them.

    I'll explain it one more time, for you: Injustice/privilege against blacks is systemic in the US. If you don't know what systemic means, look it up.
    You get more ridiculous with every post.

    You posted an absolute saying the white man can go anywhere else where there is no racism, but the black man cannot get away from racism as it is everywhere.

    That is absolute.

    I know what systemic means, I just don't believe it. There are many places a black man can get away from your racist boogie men, so your argument doesn't hold water.

  8. #118
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    If the parents are paying tuition, they can choose their teachers, even for stupid reasons.
    But that is a different debate. This one is whether a person can teach cultural studies if he happens to have white skin.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    But that is a different debate. This one is whether a person can teach cultural studies if he happens to have white skin.
    Why is it a different debate?
    If the school is private, it is up to the parents.

  10. #120
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    Re: Whites Need Not Apply?[W:68]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Yeah...you do know what it is. You use it all the time. I can find many more posts just like those. In fact I was thinking of you specifically when I wrote that particular phrase.
    My position is not that injustice is "institutionalized", though I used that term once in trying to explain this concept to you. I wouldn't have used that term, but the concept seemed entirely beyond you and I was trying to make it more simple.

    Let's not use incorrect terminology any more, ok? I understand you were confused, and you are not misrepresenting me on purpose, it's just that you did not understand the concept. Now, let's see if we can correct this. Here is the proper term, please try to use it in the future so as to not misrepresent your opponent's position. I've told you this before, and you failed to understand, so I'm really hoping that you can grasp this and stop misrepresenting your opponent's position (which is really a scummy thing to do).

    Let's remember that you do not get to decide how to frame my position incorrectly. Let's keep in mind that misrepresenting someone else's position is wrong. Here's the real deal, do try to remember this time:

    "Systemic racism"

    I was trying to define systemic racism for you before, by referring to injustice/privilege existing in institutions, but the concept is not defined by institutions, it's defined by being systemic.

    You understand now?

    Looks to me as if in the Fresno society whites are in the minority.
    Meaningless for two reasons:

    1. Social power dynamics are not decided by numbers. They are decided by power. Numbers and power sometimes coincide, but not always. Remember: power, not numbers, is the important part.

    2. Societal injustice/privilege is examined at the national or global scale, not local. This is important because it recognizes that whites can escape racial bigotry and blacks cannot.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-02-14 at 02:02 PM.

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