View Poll Results: Do those on the far right lack empathy?

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  • Yes

    26 27.37%
  • No

    69 72.63%
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Thread: Do far right Conservatives/Libertarians lack empathy?

  1. #131
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    Re: Do far right Conservatives/Libertarians lack empathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    I am only speaking, and asking the question based on my experiences around me and those that I talk to. Weather it be associates, acquaintances, friends, people out at a bar, or a stranger. Those that I do talk to seem to have quite the bitter attitude when you bring up things such as immigration. They seem to have very little to no empathy when it comes to the struggles that South and Central Americans are dealing with. Even when you point out that a good number of them are living in a war zone between cartels.

    I do live in a small town, with a lot of rural area surrounding it which is predominantly, based on voting records, republican. However I live a very short drive away from Madison WI which has its share of liberals and those that I talk to there have a very different view on how to deal with the situation.

    I know that me citing personal conversations probably has little meaning to you, but I don't think that what I've stated here is all that different from a majority of the country's views on the matter.
    Again, this goes to a question of political designation as opposed to pathology. I'm keenly aware of what passes for the entrenched insularity of the electorate's attitudes. Christ, never one more so. That Libs tend to be more educated, thus availing themselves more adequately of psychometrics should highlight the difference between a cultivated world view and implied pathology. Conversely, we have Cons no less savvy, who nevertheless champion the very measures you'd doubtless find odious.

    I just don't feel that it's productive to attribute prevailing attitudes to clinical causes. Lacking the background, the majority could be forgiven for their shortcomings. It's hardly cricket to bludgeon them for failure to exploit opportunities they could scarcely have been aware of; these being entirely foreign to their socio-economic milieu.

  2. #132
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    Re: Do far right Conservatives/Libertarians lack empathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I never said that the best way to help people is always through government assistance - it's certainly not. But by the same token, sometimes the best way to help people IS through government assistance.

    Sometimes it ain't, but sometimes it is. And the very worst thing one can do is to assume that either "never" or "always" is best.
    I have never had the pleasure of meeting anyone who suggests that "never" is best, and I have never met anyone who has been duped and taught that either. Your previous post didn't at all reflect reality.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

  3. #133
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    Re: Do far right Conservatives/Libertarians lack empathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Where have you seen this argued?





    1. Liberals have plenty of punish-thy-enemies going around. From President Punish Your Enemies And Reward Your Friends, Don't Think We're Not Keeping Score, because If You Bring A Knife We'll Bring A Gun to lower level functionaries seeking to use the power of an IRS post to punish those with whom they disagree. Coercion is a stronger part of modern Liberalism, an assumption they kept from Progressivism.

    2. Compare the violence of (for example) the anti-War and Occupy protests to the violence of (for example) the Tea Party protests. See who is actually more violent, and willing to harm their "enemies".
    Oh, God, it's all over the internet. And in right-leaning partisan forums and sites. I've heard it said for years. Politicians don't say that, of course. But it's a common feeling. And it goes without saying that if someone thinks it's okay not to have health insurance because htey can't afford it, then the implication is that it's okay that they should die because htey're poor....because that's what happens, of course.

    I've been posting in political forums for years. I recall only once reading something by a liberal saying he thought someone should die (the other person was sick or had been in an accident or something). Other posters immediately flamed him for saying that. OTOH, I've read such statements by conservatives a number of times, and when written, I don't recall that any other poster flamed him for saying that. It's just a difference between the two sides. The ones on the right seem to have a more vitriolic feeling toward those on the other side. Well, you can read the news and see that it tends to be those on the right who will actually shoot those on the other side, or spit on them. (Remember the far righters spitting on members of Congress a couple of years ago? Even the conservative members of Congress wouldn't say anything bad about the people doing the spitting.)

    There has been very little violence in our country by lefties. Far more by righties. Look at the shooter of the woman Congress person, the terrorists who bombed the fed. bldg. in OK years ago, most of the mass shooters (if they have political leanings at all). This makes sense, when you consider that the ones on the right are far more comfortable with guns and weapons (most NRA members are on the right). Not that people who have guns are violent. I have a gun. I'm just pointing that out as one possible explanation.

    Both sides have their good points and bad points. But I'm certain which side is more violent, that is for sure. That doesn't mean MOST of those on teh right are violent. But most who are violent are on the right.

    That's why those on the right sometimes refer to lefties as "girly men," "pansies," etc. They see those on the left as less manly. And therefore, less violent.

  4. #134
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    Re: Do far right Conservatives/Libertarians lack empathy?

    I look at it this way.

    There are different reactions to empathy.

    One person sees people sick/dying due to lack of health care and says "we need universal health care", or "we need the government to provide care to those who cannot afford it".

    Another person sees people sick/dying and says "we need to improve/fix the healthcare system and reduce poverty so that more people can afford health care".

    Some combination of the two is probably best.
    Education.

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  5. #135
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    Re: Do far right Conservatives/Libertarians lack empathy?

    When parents set ground rules in their homes, and don't give their children everything they want whenever they want it, does it mean the parents lack empathy?

    When store owners don't allow customers to walk through the checkout aisle without paying, does it mean those store owners are incapable of empathy?

    When governments levy taxes, does it mean the people in government lack empathy?

    The pathological desire to characterize all people who enforce basic accountability and responsibility as heartless people suggests that the whiner him- or herself has no concept of responsibility.

  6. #136
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    Re: Do far right Conservatives/Libertarians lack empathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    Oh, God, it's all over the internet. And in right-leaning partisan forums and sites. I've heard it said for years. Politicians don't say that, of course. But it's a common feeling.
    1. I've not seen that as any kind of a trend. The only person on these boards I can think of who might have gotten into that is Tigger, who has left us.
    2. That being said, finding A-holes saying A-holish things on the internet does not make it a common feeling. I read conservative blogs, conservative books, listen to conservative arguments, and read conservative policy proposals. I cannot think of a time when I have seen someone argue that we should simply abandon the poor to die.
    3. In fact, when it comes to online activity, Liberals are less tolerant than Conservatives.

    And it goes without saying that if someone thinks it's okay not to have health insurance because htey can't afford it, then the implication is that it's okay that they should die because htey're poor....because that's what happens, of course.
    That is not at all something that goes without saying. Conservatives are full of ideas how to reform how we provide health insurance and care to our poor. I've provided my own share here on this forum. Simply because liberals charge that anything that reduces state coercion in a program equals destroying it does not make it correct.

    I've been posting in political forums for years. I recall only once reading something by a liberal saying he thought someone should die (the other person was sick or had been in an accident or something). Other posters immediately flamed him for saying that. OTOH, I've read such statements by conservatives a number of times, and when written, I don't recall that any other poster flamed him for saying that.
    Well, there are plenty of people who should die. Mullah Omar, Omar al Sishani, and Abubakr Shekau come to mind. However, again, I think you are a victim here of naturally selective memory, as demonstrated by the greater incidence of real-world violence by liberals.

    It's just a difference between the two sides. The ones on the right seem to have a more vitriolic feeling toward those on the other side.
    I am thinking that this is confirmation bias for you. I think of plenty of vitriol coming from the left. The right doesn't fantasize about mass arrests of people who disagree with them about global warming (nor do we think that stabbing them in the chest is funny).

    Take a look at the accusations that the relative anger expresses itself in - the left conspiracy about Bush was that he participated in the mass-murder of more than 3,000 American citizens in the worst attack on the continental united states in more than a century in order to provide a false excuse to drag America into a decade of war in which another 5-6,000 would be killed. The conservative conspiracy about Obama is that his long-form birth certificate is a counterfeit.

    Well, you can read the news and see that it tends to be those on the right who will actually shoot those on the other side, or spit on them. (Remember the far righters spitting on members of Congress a couple of years ago? Even the conservative members of Congress wouldn't say anything bad about the people doing the spitting.)
    That is also false, and I advise you to visit any anti war or occupy protest. When the longshoremen stormed the port in Oregon, they destroyed property and took hostages. When the Tea Party movement had a giant rally in Washington, they left the public areas cleaner than they found them. Spitting? If a conservative spits on a congressman and liberals spit on servicemembers, who has done the greater dishonor to the one who least deserved it?

    There has been very little violence in our country by lefties. Far more by righties.
    again, I would urge you to take a look at the comparative protest movements, and observe the violence and destruction of property that takes place on the left but not on the right.

    Look at the shooter of the woman Congress person,
    Oh, you mean the guy described by his classmates as a left wing political radical who was obsessed with the 2012 predictions and thought that words had no meaning? The one whom the media attempted to link to Sarah Palin, despite a complete lack of evidence that he was in any way associated with any conservative movement?

    The terrorists who bombed the fed. bldg. in OK years ago, most of the mass shooters (if they have political leanings at all).
    Sure; I see your one incidence of a radical right wing bomber in the fed building and raise you the violence from the left of the 1960s and 1970s, and in addition I take your one (false) example of a shooting of a congressman and raise you an assassination of a President. The guy who did the oklahoma city bombing is universally rejected on the right. William Ayers is still active in politics and was a mentor to the current President of the United States.

    The mass shooters do not generally have conservative political leanings, despite what CNN will conjecture to you before the facts are known (see your earlier false beliefs about Loughner, formed likely in the immediate aftermath of the shooting). Liberal preferences that conservatives be pictured as violent do not actually translate to actual measurable higher violence on the part of conservatives.

    However, even the incidents you are discussing are an extremely small minority of actual violence in this country. If you like, we can take the demographics most likely to engage in violence and overlay them with demographics most likely to vote Republican v Democrat, for example. We could take, for example, 23 year old males, and compare African Americans (heavy dem) to church-going whites (heavy republican).

    This makes sense, when you consider that the ones on the right are far more comfortable with guns and weapons (most NRA members are on the right). Not that people who have guns are violent. I have a gun. I'm just pointing that out as one possible explanation.
    Again, I'm more than happy to spend some time diving into the violent crime statistics for republican leaning demographics v democrat leaning demographics if you actually want to attempt to make that argument. Since it is an atrociously bad argument, however, I'll also give you a chance to bow out of it.

    Both sides have their good points and bad points. But I'm certain which side is more violent, that is for sure.
    I'm sure you are. Self-congratulation is a common problem on the Left - which is part of why they feel justified in using coercion. It's not conservatives trying to bring back the Fairness Doctrine in order to squash voices with whom they disagree. Liberal pretensions here is simply lacks what Henry Kissinger used to call "the added benefit of being true."

    That doesn't mean MOST of those on teh right are violent. But most who are violent are on the right.
    Again, if you want to compare actual violence statistics, I'm more than happy to do so.

    That's why those on the right sometimes refer to lefties as "girly men," "pansies," etc. They see those on the left as less manly. And therefore, less violent.
    1. They are less manly. You can even see it in how they name their children.
    2. Which doesn't make them less violent, unfortunately. Children are always more violent, and the left definitely appeals to the more childish.
    Last edited by cpwill; 08-01-14 at 10:53 PM.

  7. #137
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    Re: Do far right Conservatives/Libertarians lack empathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    All you have to do is check out charitable giving stats to see who has real empathy. In addition, denying assistance is at times, the most beneficial thing to do.
    Most charities go to groups that are part of ones cultural ingroup. Its not a good measurement.

  8. #138
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    Re: Do far right Conservatives/Libertarians lack empathy?

    Interesting article pretty much sums up this thread in that famous right-wing-rag, Salon:


    Liberals stereotype more

    Those conservatives are appalling: They couldn’t care less if people get hurt. And liberals? They think anything goes, and have no concept of the meaning of loyalty.

    Caricatures? Absolutely. But such stereotypes are widely held among Americans, newly published research confirms, with liberals particularly clueless about the concerns of conservatives.

    Regarding issues of morality, “people overestimate how dramatically liberals and conservatives differ,” psychologists Jesse Graham, Brian Nosek and Jonathan Haidt write in the online journal PLoS One. Specifically, their research suggests those on the left unfairly assume their counterparts on the right are cold-hearted on issues involving harm and fairness....

    “Extreme liberals exaggerated the moral political differences the most, and moderate conservatives did so the least,” Graham and his colleagues report. “Liberals were the least accurate about conservatives and about liberals.”

    Liberals tended to stereotype conservatives as uncaring, rather than realize that conservatives’ genuine concerns about harm and fairness are tempered by other moral values that have less value to the left, such as loyalty and respect for authority.

    Distorting the picture further, liberals tend to underestimate the degree to which their fellow liberals take those “conservative” values into account when making moral evaluations. Although conservatives did this to some degree, liberals showed a stronger tendency to stereotype their political soul mates, assuming an exaggerated level of ideological purity.

    “We suspect that this is partially due to the fact that one can imagine members of one’s own ideological group more extreme than oneself,” the researchers write. “But this may also be a unique feature of moral stereotypes, in that people are motivated to exaggerate the moral values of their group in ways that are in line with the same values.”...
    Which pretty much says the same thing we have - liberals work off of unidimensional (fake) carricatures of conservatives that are designed to make them feel better about themselves, rather than actual accurate pictures of their opposition.

  9. #139
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    Re: Do far right Conservatives/Libertarians lack empathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    I have never had the pleasure of meeting anyone who suggests that "never" is best, and I have never met anyone who has been duped and taught that either. Your previous post didn't at all reflect reality.
    Really? Do I need to point you to the right-wing sites that claim that liberals are always wrong...and the right-wing sites that say that Obama is always wrong? Try finding a conservative on this forum that will admit that Obama has been right at least once. There is one - and only one - that I've seen so far. The rest absolutely refuse to admit that Obama's ever done anything right at all.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #140
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    Re: Do far right Conservatives/Libertarians lack empathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Really? Do I need to point you to the right-wing sites that claim that liberals are always wrong...and the right-wing sites that say that Obama is always wrong? Try finding a conservative on this forum that will admit that Obama has been right at least once. There is one - and only one - that I've seen so far. The rest absolutely refuse to admit that Obama's ever done anything right at all.
    Partisans play the game. Are you a partisan?

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