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Should a retailer refuse to sell alcohol to a legal adult if a minor is present?

Should a retailer refuse to sell alcohol to a legal adult if a minor is present?


  • Total voters
    58
As long as the owner's policy does not harm society or violate equal protection.

"Equal protection" should apply to government only and should never apply to the private citizen as to how he/she will use his/her own property. Agreed that one's rights to use his/her own property at will ends with another person's unalienable rights. We cannot have liberty, however, and force some people to serve others. And so long as what we do requires no contribution or participation by any other, it should be our right to do it regardless of how unpopular it might be.
 
I was referring to institutionalized racism, sexism and homophobia. No individual has a right to harm society by engaging in aggressive institutionalized economic warfare against a race or gender.

Well I don't where or why you're bringing racism, sexism, or homophobia into this discussion, I thought it was about selling/buying alcohol in front of minors. If you're not on topic when you're commenting, it's no wonder.... nevermind.

Anyway, you'll go back and note that my response ignored you insert of "equal protection," as it didn't seem pertinent to this OP.
 
Total Wine here in Nevada has a sign that says no one under 21 permitted inside the store. Not sure if that has more to do with the fact they serve samples in the store from various vendors though.
 
I vote yes.

A retailer should be able to make this decision. It's not discrimination based on sex, skin color, religion, or anything like that.

Then, the consumers should be able to find another place to do business if they really hate that concept that much.

People who chose to make bad business decisions should be free to do so.

If you're asking should ALL retailers of alcohol should do this, my answer would be no.
If you're asking if I'd refuse the sale if it were my store, the answer would be no.
I've bought plenty of beer and wine with my kids in tow.

My response was based on whether or not one particular store owner should be able to make that call.
 
Well I don't where or why you're bringing racism, sexism, or homophobia into this discussion,

That was in response to another's stated position, which I felt needed qualification.
 
I vote yes.

A retailer should be able to make this decision. It's not discrimination based on sex, skin color, religion, or anything like that.

Then, the consumers should be able to find another place to do business if they really hate that concept that much.

People who chose to make bad business decisions should be free to do so.
That's not really the question, though. "Should be allowed" is one thing, "should they?" is another. IOW: just because you can doesn't mean you should. They are within their legal rights to do so, and was pointed out in the first post. Is what they are doing proper and/or ethical?
 
Total Wine here in Nevada has a sign that says no one under 21 permitted inside the store. Not sure if that has more to do with the fact they serve samples in the store from various vendors though.
Some states are entirely like that. In Idaho, there's a terrible catch22, you can't take your child in with you to the liquor store (beer and wine only in the grocers, though I guess that could count to this discussion), and you cannot leave your child in the car, not even for 5 minutes last I heard. But yes, that would be the thing to do if a state wanted to assure that minors don't even see booze being bought or sold.
 
That was in response to another's stated position, which I felt needed qualification.

Oh, I see. Perhaps multi-quoting could be your friend.
 
Some states are entirely like that. In Idaho, there's a terrible catch22, you can't take your child in with you to the liquor store (beer and wine only in the grocers, though I guess that could count to this discussion), and you cannot leave your child in the car, not even for 5 minutes last I heard. But yes, that would be the thing to do if a state wanted to assure that minors don't even see booze being bought or sold.
Just a guess that those two laws serve different purposes, but yes, it is a catch-22.

Leave your kid on the sidewalk. All is good. ;)
 
Just a guess that those two laws serve different purposes, but yes, it is a catch-22.

Leave your kid on the sidewalk. All is good. ;)

When I was married and had to buy booze, I went to one with a TCBY just two doors down, and would buy them a treat and ask the employees if they could watch them for five. They always said yes. Evenso, what a position to put a parent in. Trusting the sidewalk or a relatively unknown employee of another store rather than having them attached to their parent.
 
The new Texas signs say. "Everyone in your group needs a valid license to prove you are 21 years old"
 
I personally believe that the drinking age should be 15 or 16 and not really enforced, so I personally feel a minor of that age should be able to buy it anyways. In this case I think it is ridiculous, what if the kid just went into the store with their parents to buy wine or something for dinner?

Because 15 and 16 year olds are so responsible.
 
The new Texas signs say. "Everyone in your group needs a valid license to prove you are 21 years old"

Yes, but Texas like Idaho, doesn't allow selling hard liquor in regular stores, unless that's changed since I left. Some cities/counties you can't buy at all, there are no liquor stores. Some you can't buy wine with dinner with or without children... To suggest Texas is superior in it's liquor laws is to be uninformed (unless there was a huge change since 1983 when I left or 1997 when I last visited).
 
When I was married and had to buy booze, I went to one with a TCBY just two doors down, and would buy them a treat and ask the employees if they could watch them for five. They always said yes. Evenso, what a position to put a parent in. Trusting the sidewalk or a relatively unknown employee of another store rather than having them attached to their parent.
The new Texas signs say. "Everyone in your group needs a valid license to prove you are 21 years old"
There a difference between a person buying for a friend (straw purchase), which is probably the original intent, and a person buying for them self with their 12 yr old tagging along.
 
Some states are entirely like that. In Idaho, there's a terrible catch22, you can't take your child in with you to the liquor store (beer and wine only in the grocers, though I guess that could count to this discussion), and you cannot leave your child in the car, not even for 5 minutes last I heard. But yes, that would be the thing to do if a state wanted to assure that minors don't even see booze being bought or sold.

i would have to question the priorities of a parent who would place their kids at potential risk only to purchase a non-necessity such as liquor
 
There a difference between a person buying for a friend (straw purchase), which is probably the original intent, and a person buying for them self with their 12 yr old tagging along.

There should be, but I can understand why the best policy is to say this store is for those 21>, rather than putting the burden on the shop owner. We don't have a problem with 21> only in bars, so to me it's the same concept. Only difference being as mentioned above, the issue that purchasing a bottle or two takes 5 minutes and you might have your kids shopping with you vs a bar where you might be quite a while and would not have your kids with you anyway.

That said, don't for one minute believe that a 12yo can't be acquiring a straw purchaser. A classmate of mine had an alcoholic mother to the point they'd find her passed out behind the Piggly Wiggly on a regular basis. Her daughter, my friend, was well on her way to being an alcoholic by age 10. I wouldn't be the teatotaler I am without their influence.
 
i would have to question the priorities of a parent who would place their kids at potential risk only to purchase a non-necessity such as liquor
Letting them go to school is a risk, letting them go to the park is a risk, letting them go to try on clothes at the store without you hovering is a risk. Parenting is a balancing act and the children's safety first is not good for the child (seriously we all know parents that just can't let their children grow up or have any responsibility or chance of failure), nor wise for the parents, who even with children have a right to some of the own non-necessities.
 
There's something of controversy going on here. A local retailer is refusing to sell alcohol to legal adults if a minor is present with them. Doesn't matter how old or young the minor is, and it doesn't matter if the minor is the adult's own kid.

The retailer is not breaking any laws by doing this, so that's not the issue... but should they? How would you react if a retailer refused to sell you alcohol just because you had your kid with you?

Please note that in this state it is perfectly legal for parents to serve their own minor children alcohol.

I'd take my business elsewhere. Then I'd ask my Facebook addicted wife to start a campaign against his business lol.
 
Letting them go to school is a risk, letting them go to the park is a risk, letting them go to try on clothes at the store without you hovering is a risk. Parenting is a balancing act and the children's safety first is not good for the child (seriously we all know parents that just can't let their children grow up or have any responsibility or chance of failure), nor wise for the parents, who even with children have a right to some of the own non-necessities.
yes, there is that risk-reward equation or balancing act, to use your term
and when the reward is liquor while the risk is potential harm to your kids, i have to question the priorities of parents who would subject their kids to that risk
 
There's something of controversy going on here. A local retailer is refusing to sell alcohol to legal adults if a minor is present with them. Doesn't matter how old or young the minor is, and it doesn't matter if the minor is the adult's own kid.

The retailer is not breaking any laws by doing this, so that's not the issue... but should they? How would you react if a retailer refused to sell you alcohol just because you had your kid with you?

Please note that in this state it is perfectly legal for parents to serve their own minor children alcohol.

This does not go against a protected class (race, gender, religion) so it's up to the vendor
 
yes, there is that risk-reward equation or balancing act, to use your term
and when the reward is liquor while the risk is potential harm to your kids, i have to question the priorities of parents who would subject their kids to that risk

Ah, but you see, you limit yourself with arithmetic when life is more usuallly like advanced algebra. For example, being a teatotaller, clearly the booze isn't even for the buyer. Usually in my case it was to assure my hubby's boss had his favorite booze available when he and his wife came to dinner and such. So the question becomes, instead of children safety > drinking booze, Is children's safety, which is relatively okay being watched by a clerk at the local TCBY or even being left in a properly venting auto for five minutes a greater consideration than Dad keeping his boss happy and his job intact?
 
There's something of controversy going on here. A local retailer is refusing to sell alcohol to legal adults if a minor is present with them. Doesn't matter how old or young the minor is, and it doesn't matter if the minor is the adult's own kid.

The retailer is not breaking any laws by doing this, so that's not the issue... but should they? How would you react if a retailer refused to sell you alcohol just because you had your kid with you?

Please note that in this state it is perfectly legal for parents to serve their own minor children alcohol.

He should be allowed too. It's not a policy I would choose but I don't think it's that wrong.
 
Ah, but you see, you limit yourself with arithmetic when life is more usuallly like advanced algebra. For example, being a teatotaller, clearly the booze isn't even for the buyer. Usually in my case it was to assure my hubby's boss had his favorite booze available when he and his wife came to dinner and such. So the question becomes, instead of children safety > drinking booze, Is children's safety, which is relatively okay being watched by a clerk at the local TCBY or even being left in a properly venting auto for five minutes a greater consideration than Dad keeping his boss happy and his job intact?

actually, the math used was differential equations by parts, and the outcome remains that the parent prioritized the acquisition of liquor ahead of the safety of the children
appears i may need to produce a graph to make my point; do you prefer linear or logarithmic?
 
actually, the math used was differential equations by parts, and the outcome remains that the parent prioritized the acquisition of liquor ahead of the safety of the children
appears i may need to produce a graph to make my point; do you prefer linear or logarithmic?

I see, hmm, then I wonder why you keep reducing this down to simple arithmetic. Now it makes even less sense that you'd rely on that level of analytics.
 
I see, hmm, then I wonder why you keep reducing this down to simple arithmetic. Now it makes even less sense that you'd rely on that level of analytics.

no matter the form of math used, the answer remains the same
one of the properties of mathematics i have long appreciated
 
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