View Poll Results: What is economic freedom?

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  • the right to own things

    20 83.33%
  • the right to take what other people have

    4 16.67%
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Thread: economic freedom

  1. #11
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    Re: economic freedom

    I define it as "Bait thread meant to out all the liberals as closet Commies."


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  2. #12
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    Re: economic freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Who is prohibited by another from participating in the economy in this country?

    If you are poor, you haven't lost a right.
    I think what he's saying is everyone should be provided the means to break from poverty (equality of opportunity). Without the means to break from poverty (often through no fault of said poor person) then that persons right to economic freedom only exists on paper, not in practice and is meaningless.
    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK

  3. #13
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    Re: economic freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    How do you define it?
    Really? "The right to take what other people have"?

    C'mon, guy, that's the silliest poll I've seen in many a year. It just goes to show how fearful you apparently are of taxes.

    And before you go on a rant about taxes, just remember the question I've been asking for several years now that has yet to be answered by any conservative or libertarian: if big government, strong regulation, and high effective taxes are SO detrimental to the economy of a nation, why is it that ALL first-world democracies have all three of those traits (and have had those traits for over half a century)...and if weak government, little or no regulation, and low effective taxes are SO good for an economy and the freedom of its people, why is it that ALL nations that have these traits are third-world nations?

    In other words, what you're arguing against is what has in many (but not all) cases led to economic success...and what you're arguing for has (in all cases) led to economic failure. Big government, strong regulation, and high effective taxes, then, don't guarantee a nation's economic success...but weak government, weak regulation, and low effective taxes DO guarantee a nation's economic failure.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  4. #14
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    Re: economic freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I define it as "Bait thread meant to out all the liberals as closet Commies."
    At least I was obvious about it.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  5. #15
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    Re: economic freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Really? "The right to take what other people have"?

    C'mon, guy, that's the silliest poll I've seen in many a year.
    Are you unfamiliar with the debate over positive rights vs. negative rights?



    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    the question I've been asking for several years now that has yet to be answered by any conservative or libertarian: if big government, strong regulation, and high effective taxes are SO detrimental to the economy of a nation, why is it that ALL first-world democracies have all three of those traits (and have had those traits for over half a century)
    They don't.


    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    ...and if weak government, little or no regulation, and low effective taxes are SO good for an economy and the freedom of its people, why is it that ALL nations that have these traits are third-world nations?
    Once again, they don't.


    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    In other words, what you're arguing against is what has in many (but not all) cases led to economic success...and what you're arguing for has (in all cases) led to economic failure. Big government, strong regulation, and high effective taxes, then, don't guarantee a nation's economic success...but weak government, weak regulation, and low effective taxes DO guarantee a nation's economic failure.
    History and logic both say otherwise. It isn't debatable. That would be like debating evolution. Bill Nye took some heat from his own side for engaging in a debate about evolution.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  6. #16
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    Re: economic freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Are you unfamiliar with the debate over positive rights vs. negative rights?



    They don't.


    Once again, they don't.


    History and logic both say otherwise. It isn't debatable. That would be like debating evolution. Bill Nye took some heat from his own side for engaging in a debate about evolution.
    Really? Would you, then, be so kind as to show me any first-world democracy that does not have big government, strong regulation, and high effective taxes? And feel free to try to claim Singapore - because Singapore does have all three (though they're called by different names).

    And while you're at it, would you also be so kind as to show me any nation that has a weak government, little or no regulation, and low effective taxes that is not a third-world nation?

    What's that? You can't provide any solid examples of either to prove me wrong? Gee, wonder why? But the sad thing is, it Does Not Matter that I've got a whole world of evidence to back up what I say, and you have ZERO evidence to back up what you say...because you will not change your mind. Evidence does not matter to you. All that matters to you is Thou Shalt Never Admit that conservative dogma might actually not be as accurate as you've been taught for all these years.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  7. #17
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    Re: economic freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Really? Would you, then, be so kind as to show me any first-world democracy that does not have big government, strong regulation, and high effective taxes? And feel free to try to claim Singapore - because Singapore does have all three (though they're called by different names).

    And while you're at it, would you also be so kind as to show me any nation that has a weak government, little or no regulation, and low effective taxes that is not a third-world nation?

    What's that? You can't provide any solid examples of either to prove me wrong? Gee, wonder why? But the sad thing is, it Does Not Matter that I've got a whole world of evidence to back up what I say, and you have ZERO evidence to back up what you say...because you will not change your mind. Evidence does not matter to you. All that matters to you is Thou Shalt Never Admit that conservative dogma might actually not be as accurate as you've been taught for all these years.
    I don't see the point in debating something that's so well documented.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  8. #18
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    Re: economic freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    I don't see the point in debating something that's so well documented.
    In other words, you've got nothing...and you don't have the intestinal fortitude to even try to back up what you claimed.

    I DO have proof:

    Every single first-world democracy has big government, strong regulation, and high effective taxes...
    ...and every single nation that has weak government, weak regulation, and low effective taxes is a third-world nation.

    These are true statements.

    All I ask you to do is point out even ONE first-world democracy that has weak government, weak regulation, and low effective taxes. You can do that, right? Because you did say that it's "so well documented", so it should be simplicity itself for you to be able to point to even ONE first-world democracy that has weak government, weak regulation, and low effective taxes.

    Just one - that's all I ask! It's SO well-documented, so is it really that difficult to type in the name of even one such first-world democracy?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #19
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    Re: economic freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    If you think of freedom as the ability to buy a specific product, then of course you'll miss the point. If someone is too poor to undertake any moves to alter their position in life because they must devote all their meager resources towards mere survival does not really have the right to do so.
    No, their liberty remains. What they lack then is (as TB points out) significant means.

    Stripping someone of the means to exercise a right is a time-honored method of stripping someone of that right. A right on paper is meaningless. And I'm talking about the right to participate in the economy. Desperately trying to survive is not participation.
    You don't have a right to participate in the economy - that would be a positive right. You have a right not to be kept from participating in the economy.

    And the trade that goes into survival is indeed part of the economy. Buy Food, Shelter, whatehaveyou - you're taking part in economic exchange. SCOTUS has even ruled that the provision of these things for yourself counts as taking part in the economy, as you are displacing purchases you would otherwise have had to have made (if you don't like that, and I'm no fan of it, take it up with Woodrow Wilson).

  10. #20
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    Re: economic freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    In other words, you've got nothing...and you don't have the intestinal fortitude to even try to back up what you claimed.
    If Bill Nye had turned down the opportunity to debate evolution, would you say he had nothing? Would you say he lacked intestinal fortitude?
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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