Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sams?

roguenuke said:

And most guys don't care. If they did, the very fact that football players shower with other guys at all, no matter their sexuality, would bother them. This is just looking for an excuse.

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CRUE CAB said:

Tell that to the Miami Dolphins.

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Navy Pride said:

You would probably be surprised how many guys care.

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roguenuke said:

Very few guys care unless they are right there inside the locker room with them or believe something is going on. It is like changing your view on those in the military because now openly gay guys are showering with the straight guys eventhough it isn't you showering with the gay guys, nor is this really a problem for those actually in the showers with the gay guys.

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Henrin said:

Geez, exactly how do those guys get away with that gay ass behavior and not get endlessly taunted? If some dude commented on my penis I would taunt his ass endlessly for the rest of time.

Regardless, it's disturbing behavior to be straight and be commenting on another guys penis and slapping other guys asses. I'm not convinced their not gay or at least bisexual frankly. It's gay behavior, imho.

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Henrin said:

I highly doubt it's not a problem for those guys. It's just that they deal with it much like they deal with the fact they are showering with other guys. Some of which seem to enjoy looking at other guys penises and yet claim they are not gay. :/

When you are required to do something and you can't say no or quit your job you have no choice in the matter. The military has many things about it that are comparable to slavery, really.

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Navy Pride said:

You would probably be surprised how many guys care.

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roguenuke said:

More likely is not that they "enjoy looking" but rather that they notice and things that appear "odd" stick in your mind, even when it is something you saw naked.

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Navy Pride said:

In what capacity? The question begs to be asked were you nude?

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Henrin said:

Lol, I have heard plenty of stories of people looking and then commenting on size and other characteristics of the other men in the shower. Most of the time it's to mock, but other times not so much. Even to mock is pretty gay behavior since you are taking the time to not only look, but to figure out how to comment on it.

There is plenty about human behavior I don't understand, but this behavior is without a doubt gay.

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roguenuke said:

The contention was that what goes on in the locker room, as in who is showering with whom in that locker room will somehow affect how the fans view the team, likely negatively. That contention is ridiculous because they are not going to act the same in their locker room when they know that others are around or watching as they do when there is no one around. In all likelihood, NFL players probably act better in the locker rooms though than military personnel and high school or college football players, and there are plenty of gays in all those locker rooms.

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roguenuke said:

Only down to my bra and panties, but still did it for about 4-5 months when I was the only girl, couldn't wear coveralls to work, coveralls were the expected and best uniform to wear, the guys were changing in the shop we worked in, and the closest place to change for me would have been a 5 or so minute walk away. Easier to get permission to change there than put up with the hassle. They guys didn't mind, neither did I. Now, they didn't joke about me (they were always weary of sexual harassment charges, eventhough it takes a lot for me to consider something "harassment"), but they certainly would make comments on each other, naked or not.

But some of the stuff from the heads and berthing came out in the plant.

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roguenuke said:

No that is not "gay behavior" at all. That is human behavior that has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality. I don't look at another woman's boobs and feel attraction, but that doesn't mean I can't comment on how flat or large a woman might be, with or without clothes on. There is nothing "gay" about that.

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Henrin said:

I don't think she really understands the situation much. She said in another thread that you get used to showering with other people. That isn't even close to true according to studies into the issue.

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Henrin said:

No, it's not gay because it deals in attraction, but gay because the man feels compelled to comment and look. Sorry, I'm defining the term gay in a more slang sort of way. A way you most likely reject.

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roguenuke said:

Only down to my bra and panties, but still did it for about 4-5 months when I was the only girl, couldn't wear coveralls to work, coveralls were the expected and best uniform to wear, the guys were changing in the shop we worked in, and the closest place to change for me would have been a 5 or so minute walk away. Easier to get permission to change there than put up with the hassle. They guys didn't mind, neither did I. Now, they didn't joke about me (they were always weary of sexual harassment charges, eventhough it takes a lot for me to consider something "harassment"), but they certainly would make comments on each other, naked or not.

But some of the stuff from the heads and berthing came out in the plant.

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roguenuke said:

Showering with other people is all about your attitude toward being naked and seeing others naked. The more you view the naked body as sexual, the more uncomfortable you will feel about it. Not everyone does. And after a while of being forced to shower with others, you realize that just being in the shower with others around you, all being naked has nothing to do with sex (unless you had some traumatic experience in the past). The issue mainly is that many people aren't willing to do it often enough to truly see that it doesn't matter and being naked isn't about sex at all most of the time.

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roguenuke said:

That isn't what being gay is. Homosexuality is about attraction, romantic attraction, not curiosity and grandstanding and trying to make others look bad.

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Henrin said:

I realize that being naked isn't about sex most of the time. Hell, we are born naked, so of course it's not meant to be. I however see no proof of your claim and have heard older people that were forced to do it in school comment that it was uncomfortable even if they were forced to do it for years on end.

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Henrin said:

Curiosity is gay behavior and grandstanding by commenting on another mans penis makes you look gay. :shrug:

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CRUE CAB said:

Pfffffft, pics or it didn't happen. LOL

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roguenuke said:

Pretty sure taking pics in that situation would have been sexual harassment, no matter who was taking them, including me.

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roguenuke said:

Curiosity is human behavior. Everyone is curious about something. It has nothing to do with being gay. And commenting on another man's penis does not make you look gay to most people, mainly only those who are insecure about their own sexuality.

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roguenuke said:

Then those old people only saw the negative or likely can't separate their views about sex and nakedness. Or they never got over being self conscious. Whatever the problem is, most people can get used to showering with other people (doesn't mean they will ever prefer showering with other people to showering alone) or being naked in front of others (again, doesn't mean they will become a nudist) if they do it often enough.

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