View Poll Results: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sams?

Voters
37. You may not vote on this poll
  • Agree

    30 81.08%
  • disagree

    7 18.92%
Page 27 of 29 FirstFirst ... 172526272829 LastLast
Results 261 to 270 of 285

Thread: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sams?

  1. #261
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Every word out of your mouth. You are desperate to find homohobia. Its sad. You MAY want to consider...it might just be you.
    Here's a few select samples of my comments in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Here are some predictions about what will happen when Michael Sam is either cut or makes the team:

    If he's cut: Some people will criticize Jeff Fisher because, even though he went out and drafted the first openly gay player into the NFL, they will claim he cut Sam becasue he was gay.

    If he makes the team: Some people will claim that he only made the team because he was gay and that Jeff Fisher was too frightened of scenario one occurring to cut him,

    .
    That's how some peopel on both sides will react. The truth of the matter, however, is:

    If Sam gets cut: It'll be because Jeff Fisher and his staff did not feel that Sam was one of the 53 best players on the squad.

    If Sam makes the team: It'll be because Fisher et al though he was one of the 53 best players.

    That's the truth of it. There will always be people who aren't capable of recognizing the above, but that won't change the fact that the above will be the case.

    AS far as Dungy's comments go, he's not saying anything different from what I said when I said Sam was drafted later than he would have been had he not come out before the draft. Lots of coaches in the NFL are Distraction averse. Sam was basically a mid-level prospect coming out of college (5th-7th round prospect). His combine stats were not very good, but he had great college production and he's got loads of heart and intangibles. Because of the heart and intangibles, I think he would have gone somewhere in the 5th round had he not come out before the draft.

    In this kind of scenario, however, some NFL coaches tend to get skittish. You're basically looking at first-rounder distraction-potential for a guy who is probably just role player/specialist that doesn't fit any one mold well (he's too small for putting his hand on the ground, too slow to be dropping into coverage). Lots of coaches will look at him and say "Meh, he seems like a good kid and I hope he does well, but I don't want to deal with all that media bull**** for a guy who's not really likely to be a big impact player".

    Say what you will about Mike Vick, the guy can be a dynamic player who can change a game. Coaches are more likely to put up with a distraction when it is coupled with a major potential for an upside like that. Unfortunately, Sam simply doesn't have that kind of potential.

    I think Sam will end up having a decent little career because he is a good player who can help the right team. He's the kind of player that has a 4-7 year career as a role player/special teams contributor. He's got the heart and drive to outperform his raw physical talents (as he did in college). Generally speaking, though, a lot of coaches don't want a lot of media attention focused on a role-player/special teamer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Let's put it this way: If Clowney had come out as gay, he'd still have been the #1 pick in the draft. His sky-high potential as a player would have been "worth the potential distraction" for pretty much every coach and GM in the league.

    Sam's a marginal talent with a low ceiling. That's pretty much a universal take from scouts on him. Because of that, many coaches and GM's will look at the media storm surrounding his entry into the NFL and say, "**** it, it's not worth it for a special teamer".

    If Aaron Rogers were a free agent and he decided to come out and say he was gay, all 32 teams in the NFL would still be interested in signing him. The cost of signing him is what would drop some teams out. 0 teams would say "I don't want him because he's gay and it would be a distraction to have a gay player on the team."
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I would have to disagree. It's not homophobia that prevents Sam from being worth the "distraction", it's Sam's marginal abilities. He's basically a dime a dozen player who will more-than-likely never rise above occasional role-player or decent special-teamer.

    Despite his marginal abilities, he garners a ****-ton of media attention and scrutiny heaped upon any coaching staff and organization which he is a part of.

    Here's the real crux of it. Sam's looking at a 50/50 shot of making the team. This is probably a best case scenario for him. It's actually more like 30/70, with only a 30% chance of making the team because the Rams are loaded at defensive line. If he does get cut (which is not at all unlikely), the Rams are going to be accused of cutting him because he is gay. In truth, he'll be cut because he is being treated just like any other football player, though.

    Sam is doing one thing for the future, though. He has taken on the "distraction" factor for any future players who come out before the draft. The next time an openly gay player gets drafted, it won't be a historic event. It'll just be another guy getting drafted.

    As I said earlier, though, if Clowney was gay, he would still have been drafted #1 overall and any GM in the league would be happy to have the guy on his team. You can't simply look at this as though all players are equal. They aren't. The ultimate thing that any GM is going to ask himself is "Would having this player on our team make us more likely to win games, or will having this player on my team hurt our chances to win games?"

    Sam being gay will not help a team win games. Sam being a role player/special teamer could potentially help a team win games, but having him on the squad is only going to be a slight benefit. He's just not likely to be good enough to be a significant boost to a team.

    But it's also possible that the media attention Sam receives could be a distraction from actual on the field stuff, which could hurt a teams chances to win games. Like it or not, that is a distinct possibility. The GM has to weigh out whether their assessment of Sam's abilities outweigh the potential for distraction. Unfortunately for Sam, most Gm's don't think so. If he had Clowney's talent, most GM's would absolutely think his benefit to the team outweighed his distraction potential. It's a business and Sam is being treated just like any other player of his abilities would be treated if they were drawing the kind of media attention he draws. The key thing here is "of his abilities".

    People keep trying to compare Sam to Michael Vick (freakish athletic ability) or Ray Lewis (one of the best ever at his position), and other "elite" player. Nobody thinks Sam is going to be an elite player who could impact games anywhere near the level those guys did. Nobody. He's going to impact games on about the same level that a Blake Costanzo impacts games.

    Please support your claim that "every word out of my mouth" is "desperate to find homophobia"?

    ****, I actually have a post that defends against a claim of homophobia rendered at the NFL. I'm merely pointing out that some of your statements appear to be based on homophobia rather than a rational assessment of things (for example, you essentially called his coming out something along the lines of "making a spectacle of himself").

    It's pretty clear that I can support my denial of your claim about me. Unfortunately, you cannot support your claim about me at all. It's kind of like your claim that Sam is making a spectacle of himself. It's something you are making up and pretending to be true in lieu of a rational argument.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  2. #262
    cookies crumble
    ARealConservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    04-21-17 @ 09:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    14,518

    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I'm not to blame for your terrible sentence structure. When you say "Dood hasnt even reported to training camp and he signed on to do a "reality" show."
    Had I been a fan of the Rams, or a coach of said team, I would of been very disappointed with his timing of this announcement. Why? Because I don't see it being in his best interest as a football player to focus on other things right now.

  3. #263
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,736

    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Here's a few select samples of my comments in this thread:









    Please support your claim that "every word out of my mouth" is "desperate to find homophobia"?

    ****, I actually have a post that defends against a claim of homophobia rendered at the NFL. I'm merely pointing out that some of your statements appear to be based on homophobia rather than a rational assessment of things (for example, you essentially called his coming out something along the lines of "making a spectacle of himself").

    It's pretty clear that I can support my denial of your claim about me. Unfortunately, you cannot support your claim about me at all. It's kind of like your claim that Sam is making a spectacle of himself. It's something you are making up and pretending to be true in lieu of a rational argument.
    Sams did make a spectacle of himself as are you. Sams, prior to even reporting to camp signed up for a reality show. As I beleive YOU pointed out...his coach thought it was a spectacle and put the kibosh on it. The end. Or rather should be 'the end'. But you see homophobe. Was Fisher a homophobe to say it may be somewhat of a distraction? And was it homophobic for me to point out that that distraction for a 7th round draft choice wasnt worth it, nor was the Johnny Manziel show (oh...wait...is he gay too?)

    You are the one with the problem. You are the one desperate to find homophobia. Reference the skit.

  4. #264
    The Dude
    Kobie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Western NY
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    42,919

    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Sorry...but you are the one desperate to find "homophobe". That just sad.
    Pretty sad excuse for a rebuttal.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  5. #265
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,736

    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Pretty sad excuse for a rebuttal.
    We already know where you and I stand, right?

  6. #266
    The Dude
    Kobie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Western NY
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    42,919

    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    We already know where you and I stand, right?
    I stand on the floor, or the ground when I'm outside.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  7. #267
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,773

    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Vick was a huge distraction. Not as much in the locker room but to any team that took him. Protests in every city.
    And in that context, I can understand Tony Dungy's stance.

    "I wouldn't have taken him. Not because I don't believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn't want to deal with all of it.

    "It's not going to be totally smooth ... things will happen."

    ...

    "I was not asked whether or not Michael Sam deserves an opportunity to play in the NFL. He absolutely does.

    "I was not asked whether his sexual orientation should play a part in the evaluation process. It should not.

    "I was not asked whether I would have a problem having Michael Sam on my team. I would not.

    "I have been asked all of those questions several times in the last three months and have always answered them the same way -- by saying that playing in the NFL is, and should be, about merit," the statement read. "The best players make the team, and everyone should get the opportunity to prove whether they're good enough to play. That's my opinion as a coach.

    "But those were not the questions I was asked. What I was asked about was my philosophy of drafting, a philosophy that was developed over the years, which was to minimize distractions for my teams.

    "I do not believe Michael's sexual orientation will be a distraction to his teammates or his organization. I do, however, believe that the media attention that comes with it will be a distraction. Unfortunately we are all seeing this play out now, and I feel badly that my remarks played a role in the distraction.
    The Bucs camp will be loaded with media from the first day of NFL Training Camp until opening day and at every mistake, towel pop or slap on the butt by a teammate. To that, I agree with Dungy overall. However, I think the only way to turn media attention away from Michael Sam's sexual orientation is for him to perform well on the field from day-1.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-30-14 at 08:40 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  8. #268
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Had I been a fan of the Rams, or a coach of said team, I would of been very disappointed with his timing of this announcement. Why? Because I don't see it being in his best interest as a football player to focus on other things right now.
    Were you equally critical of Decker's reality TV show? What about the various players who have been on Dancing with the Stars, etc?
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  9. #269
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Sams did make a spectacle of himself as are you.
    He simply came out. That's not making a spectacle of himself, no matter how hard you try to pretend it was.

    Do you have support fro your claim about "every word from my mouth" and so on?

    Sams, prior to even reporting to camp signed up for a reality show.
    Why do you keep talking about training camp?


    As I beleive YOU pointed out...his coach thought it was a spectacle and put the kibosh on it.
    I never said that Fisher thought it was a spectacle. Don't put words into my mouth. I said Fisher put the kibosh on it, and I'm guessing that Fisher would have done the same to Eric Decker's show had he been Deckers coach.

    It has nothing to do with Sam "making a spectacle of himself".

    But you see homophobe.
    I didn't say you were acting like a homophobe for that singular statement alone. You said multiple things which, when taken in their entirety, scream "homophobe". sorry if you don't like that.

    Was Fisher a homophobe to say it may be somewhat of a distraction?
    No, but fisher didn't arbitrarily decide to demonize the gay guy by claiming he was making a spectacle of himself by coming out. That was you. Fisher is not doing anything to demonstrate homophobia, while you are. See how that works? It's kind of like how you can't call someone a "nigger" and then get hyperdefensive when you get called a racist afterward. If you do or say stuff which indicates homophobia, then you'll get called on it.

    And was it homophobic for me to point out that that distraction for a 7th round draft choice wasnt worth it, nor was the Johnny Manziel show (oh...wait...is he gay too?)
    Saying that the distraction wasn't worth it for a 7th round pick/marginal player was not homophobic. That's why I have basically defended Dungy.

    Saying stupid **** like "he was making a spectacle of himself" for doing nothing more than coming out of the closet and accepting an offered business deal (which would have made a guy who has a high chance to get cut a significant amount of money, thus making it a smart business decision on his part) contingent on his coach's OK was homophobic.

    You are the one with the problem. You are the one desperate to find homophobia. Reference the skit.
    So despite having evidence which indicates I was actually arguing against homophobia being a primary reason for his drop in the draft, you still hold onto the delusional idea that I am desperate to find homophobia?

    Did it ever occur to you that I found homophobia in your comments because, perhaps unintentionally, it is actually present?

    Let me ask you this: what is your general stance on homosexuals/homosexuality? Do you get repulsed if you see two men kissing? Do you have the "It's ok so long as they keep it behind closed doors cause I don't want to see it" mentality?
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  10. #270
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,736

    Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    He simply came out. That's not making a spectacle of himself, no matter how hard you try to pretend it was.

    Do you have support fro your claim about "every word from my mouth" and so on?



    Why do you keep talking about training camp?




    I never said that Fisher thought it was a spectacle. Don't put words into my mouth. I said Fisher put the kibosh on it, and I'm guessing that Fisher would have done the same to Eric Decker's show had he been Deckers coach.

    It has nothing to do with Sam "making a spectacle of himself".



    I didn't say you were acting like a homophobe for that singular statement alone. You said multiple things which, when taken in their entirety, scream "homophobe". sorry if you don't like that.



    No, but fisher didn't arbitrarily decide to demonize the gay guy by claiming he was making a spectacle of himself by coming out. That was you. Fisher is not doing anything to demonstrate homophobia, while you are. See how that works? It's kind of like how you can't call someone a "nigger" and then get hyperdefensive when you get called a racist afterward. If you do or say stuff which indicates homophobia, then you'll get called on it.



    Saying that the distraction wasn't worth it for a 7th round pick/marginal player was not homophobic. That's why I have basically defended Dungy.

    Saying stupid **** like "he was making a spectacle of himself" for doing nothing more than coming out of the closet and accepting an offered business deal (which would have made a guy who has a high chance to get cut a significant amount of money, thus making it a smart business decision on his part) contingent on his coach's OK was homophobic.



    So despite having evidence which indicates I was actually arguing against homophobia being a primary reason for his drop in the draft, you still hold onto the delusional idea that I am desperate to find homophobia?

    Did it ever occur to you that I found homophobia in your comments because, perhaps unintentionally, it is actually present?

    Let me ask you this: what is your general stance on homosexuals/homosexuality? Do you get repulsed if you see two men kissing? Do you have the "It's ok so long as they keep it behind closed doors cause I don't want to see it" mentality?
    it wasn't his coming out that was the spectacle. I stated that but you are desperate to find homophobe. It was the reality show before he even started training camp. I said that by you are desperate to find homophobe. Fisher did indeed say he thought it would be a distraction but you are desperate to find homophobe. Fisher did put the kibosh on it but you are desperate to find homophobe. Face it. You are that guy.

Page 27 of 29 FirstFirst ... 172526272829 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •