View Poll Results: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sams?

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Thread: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sams?

  1. #231
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Every time I hear or read of a player, owner, GM, coach or fan saying that a gay player will be 'too much of a distraction to be worth it'; I assume that person is homophobic (to some significant extent) and the primary basis for their comments is a dislike/discomfort with homosexuals.
    I would have to disagree. It's not homophobia that prevents Sam from being worth the "distraction", it's Sam's marginal abilities. He's basically a dime a dozen player who will more-than-likely never rise above occasional role-player or decent special-teamer.

    Despite his marginal abilities, he garners a ****-ton of media attention and scrutiny heaped upon any coaching staff and organization which he is a part of.

    Here's the real crux of it. Sam's looking at a 50/50 shot of making the team. This is probably a best case scenario for him. It's actually more like 30/70, with only a 30% chance of making the team because the Rams are loaded at defensive line. If he does get cut (which is not at all unlikely), the Rams are going to be accused of cutting him because he is gay. In truth, he'll be cut because he is being treated just like any other football player, though.

    Sam is doing one thing for the future, though. He has taken on the "distraction" factor for any future players who come out before the draft. The next time an openly gay player gets drafted, it won't be a historic event. It'll just be another guy getting drafted.

    As I said earlier, though, if Clowney was gay, he would still have been drafted #1 overall and any GM in the league would be happy to have the guy on his team. You can't simply look at this as though all players are equal. They aren't. The ultimate thing that any GM is going to ask himself is "Would having this player on our team make us more likely to win games, or will having this player on my team hurt our chances to win games?"

    Sam being gay will not help a team win games. Sam being a role player/special teamer could potentially help a team win games, but having him on the squad is only going to be a slight benefit. He's just not likely to be good enough to be a significant boost to a team.

    But it's also possible that the media attention Sam receives could be a distraction from actual on the field stuff, which could hurt a teams chances to win games. Like it or not, that is a distinct possibility. The GM has to weigh out whether their assessment of Sam's abilities outweigh the potential for distraction. Unfortunately for Sam, most Gm's don't think so. If he had Clowney's talent, most GM's would absolutely think his benefit to the team outweighed his distraction potential. It's a business and Sam is being treated just like any other player of his abilities would be treated if they were drawing the kind of media attention he draws. The key thing here is "of his abilities".

    People keep trying to compare Sam to Michael Vick (freakish athletic ability) or Ray Lewis (one of the best ever at his position), and other "elite" player. Nobody thinks Sam is going to be an elite player who could impact games anywhere near the level those guys did. Nobody. He's going to impact games on about the same level that a Blake Costanzo impacts games.
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  2. #232
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Let's put it this way: If Clowney had come out as gay, he'd still have been the #1 pick in the draft. His sky-high potential as a player would have been "worth the potential distraction" for pretty much every coach and GM in the league.

    Sam's a marginal talent with a low ceiling. That's pretty much a universal take from scouts on him. Because of that, many coaches and GM's will look at the media storm surrounding his entry into the NFL and say, "**** it, it's not worth it for a special teamer".

    If Aaron Rogers were a free agent and he decided to come out and say he was gay, all 32 teams in the NFL would still be interested in signing him. The cost of signing him is what would drop some teams out. 0 teams would say "I don't want him because he's gay and it would be a distraction to have a gay player on the team."
    Plus the fact that he will be playing on a team whose home-base is about 100 hundred miles east of where he went of school.
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  3. #233
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The coaches or the distractions?
    Both, sports in general.
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No offense, but a number of talent evaluators both in the media and in NFL front officers whose expertise I weigh FAR more than yours disagree with you. Also, facts disagree with you...he is and NFL player and therefore is inherently, factually, NFL caliber.

    Whether he sticks or not is a question, but acting like its some unquestionable factual truth that he "shouldn't have been drafted" is ridiculous. He was rated as a draft able prospect, even before coming out, by pretty much every reputable college evaluating group. Multiple front offices suggested they would've been interested in potentially bringing him in as a UDFA if he wasn't drafted and at least one front office felt he warranted a draft pick. There's been FAR more questionable picks over the years than Michael Sam in the 7th, so suggesting he just "shouldn't" have been drafted is ridiculous.
    I don't think being drafted by a team makes you an NFL caliber athlete. I have kids who would be considered too old for pro-sports so, what would it make me if some team took pity on me and drafted me to live out my dreams? NFL caliber? Good luck selling that point to football fans.

    No one is actually saying Michael Sam shouldn't play football because he's gay. He just happens to be too weak, too slow, too small, and not nearly agile enough to warrant all this distraction. His NFL stock wasn't in free fall because of his sexuality. It's because of his on-field ability showcased in all it's not-very-goodness at the combine and his pro-day. It's great that the St Louis front office wanted to send a social message to the world but their responsibility was to put a better team and they could have had the exact same talent without the off-field distractions. Aren't we supposed to be looking past his sexuality and focusing on his talent?
    Last edited by shavingcollywob; 07-28-14 at 10:53 AM.

  5. #235
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I would have to disagree. It's not homophobia that prevents Sam from being worth the "distraction", it's Sam's marginal abilities. He's basically a dime a dozen player who will more-than-likely never rise above occasional role-player or decent special-teamer.

    Despite his marginal abilities, he garners a ****-ton of media attention and scrutiny heaped upon any coaching staff and organization which he is a part of.

    Here's the real crux of it. Sam's looking at a 50/50 shot of making the team. This is probably a best case scenario for him. It's actually more like 30/70, with only a 30% chance of making the team because the Rams are loaded at defensive line. If he does get cut (which is not at all unlikely), the Rams are going to be accused of cutting him because he is gay. In truth, he'll be cut because he is being treated just like any other football player, though.

    Sam is doing one thing for the future, though. He has taken on the "distraction" factor for any future players who come out before the draft. The next time an openly gay player gets drafted, it won't be a historic event. It'll just be another guy getting drafted.

    As I said earlier, though, if Clowney was gay, he would still have been drafted #1 overall and any GM in the league would be happy to have the guy on his team. You can't simply look at this as though all players are equal. They aren't. The ultimate thing that any GM is going to ask himself is "Would having this player on our team make us more likely to win games, or will having this player on my team hurt our chances to win games?"

    Sam being gay will not help a team win games. Sam being a role player/special teamer could potentially help a team win games, but having him on the squad is only going to be a slight benefit. He's just not likely to be good enough to be a significant boost to a team.

    But it's also possible that the media attention Sam receives could be a distraction from actual on the field stuff, which could hurt a teams chances to win games. Like it or not, that is a distinct possibility. The GM has to weigh out whether their assessment of Sam's abilities outweigh the potential for distraction. Unfortunately for Sam, most Gm's don't think so. If he had Clowney's talent, most GM's would absolutely think his benefit to the team outweighed his distraction potential. It's a business and Sam is being treated just like any other player of his abilities would be treated if they were drawing the kind of media attention he draws. The key thing here is "of his abilities".

    People keep trying to compare Sam to Michael Vick (freakish athletic ability) or Ray Lewis (one of the best ever at his position), and other "elite" player. Nobody thinks Sam is going to be an elite player who could impact games anywhere near the level those guys did. Nobody. He's going to impact games on about the same level that a Blake Costanzo impacts games.
    HAd Michael Sams come out and said "BTW...I'm gay. Now...game on" I dont think anyone would have had too much concern. Unfortunately he made it a spectacle not by his announcement but by his follow on actions. Dood hasnt even reported to training camp and he signed on to do a "reality" show. He and his handlers went out of their way to make this be about everything BUT the game. Thats the kind of distraction that has been mentioned and it is the same kind of freak show mentality that Johnny Manziel brought with him.

    A reporter did a breakdown of Sams the day after he came out as being gay. What the film showed was that he was undersized, lacked speed, didnt have a strong pass rushing presence. They also broke down his play against those players that would not be even considered as an NFL prospect vs those that were NFL caliber college players. Results..beast mode against the first group, zip against the second. "A majority of his production came in three games against inferior competition without a need to show much of a pass-rushing repertoire. He doesn’t show much of what the NFL looks for on special teams, and it’s difficult to project a position for him on the next level. For those reasons, Sam would project to be no better than a mid- to late-round pick. He could go undrafted."

    And thats from a guy that likes him and thinks he actually could make it on the right team with the right set of circumstances.

  6. #236
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    He doesn’t show much of what the NFL looks for on special teams, and it’s difficult to project a position for him on the next level. For those reasons, Sam would project to be no better than a mid- to late-round pick. He could go undrafted."

    .
    And he was drafted in the last round. Based soley on his talent and skills. If he was straight it wouldn't even be a story, and if he was straight nobody would be saying it was a bad pick.


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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    And he was drafted in the last round. Based soley on his talent and skills. If he was straight it wouldn't even be a story, and if he was straight nobody would be saying it was a bad pick.
    I think that was Dungy's point.

    You might tolerate a freakshow if it was a blue chip first round player. You should be apprehensive about inviting chaos over someone who is at best a longshot to make the team.

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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    And he was drafted in the last round. Based soley on his talent and skills. If he was straight it wouldn't even be a story, and if he was straight nobody would be saying it was a bad pick.
    That's not true. There would be a ton of criticism if he were a straight guy who brings this much distraction with him.

    Again, as much as the left doesn't like to admit it, he's being treated like anyone else.

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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by shavingcollywob View Post
    That's not true. There would be a ton of criticism if he were a straight guy who brings this much distraction with him.

    Again, as much as the left doesn't like to admit it, he's being treated like anyone else.
    If he were straight there wouldn't be any distraction. Blame that on whoever you like.

    The first openly gay player was likely to bring a circus anyway, no matter what the talent level. Even if a current Pro Bowl caliber player came out, it would be a circus (and rumors abound about Aaron Rodgers...)


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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    If he were straight there wouldn't be any distraction. Blame that on whoever you like.

    The first openly gay player was likely to bring a circus anyway, no matter what the talent level. Even if a current Pro Bowl caliber player came out, it would be a circus (and rumors abound about Aaron Rodgers...)
    No one is saying he shouldn't play because he's gay or because he's a distraction.

    The only thing anyone is really saying about Michael Sam is he's not good enough to justify the distraction.

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