View Poll Results: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sams?

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Thread: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sams?

  1. #221
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Excellent job at it I might add. We'd make a poor Skip and Stephen A

    Is it sad that was the best actual michael Sam debate I've had thus far?
    As long as you're skip.

    It is sad. The good news is that you won, though. I had no rebuttal at that point. I was like "I totally agree with pretty much everything he's saying and I can't even come up with more bull**** to try and rebut him because he's ****ing right".

    At least I was able to present a somewhat legitimate support for saying he should have/would have gone in the 5th using the historical data. 6th or 7th was definitely more likely for exactly the reasons you stated.

    During the draft, I thought for sure San Fran would have taken him though. How wouldn't that have made sense? They had like 50,000 picks in the draft anyway.
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    As long as you're skip.

    It is sad. The good news is that you won, though. I had no rebuttal at that point. I was like "I totally agree with pretty much everything he's saying and I can't even come up with more bull**** to try and rebut him because he's ****ing right".

    At least I was able to present a somewhat legitimate support for saying he should have/would have gone in the 5th using the historical data. 6th or 7th was definitely more likely for exactly the reasons you stated.

    During the draft, I thought for sure San Fran would have taken him though. How wouldn't that have made sense? They had like 50,000 picks in the draft anyway.
    Actually Michael Sam’s was sent home (By Rams coach Fisher) with orders to loose weight and he will be used mostly in situational IE pass rushes, and special teams. He came to camp 13 pounds lighter and according to him stronger. We’ll see.
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  3. #223
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, other potential talent could've been found that could've arguably been as good or better than the SEC CO-DPOTY. For example, the Big 12 DPOTY who also was the Nation's Defensive End of the year (meaning he won the award OVER Sam who also was a DE and went undrafted. Additionally, when you get late in the draft and to UDFA often it's about finding a scheme fit or someone you feel has the measurable and you can develop rather than simple college production...each front office weighs things differently.
    National awards are a little ridiculous to use as a gauge, although with over 20 DEs drafted you'd think that guy would be also. All i could find was there are "concerns about his health."

    If you want other evidence, GMs asking rookies if they like girls, the Rams being stacked with DEs yet they're the team that finally took Sam, plenty of anti gay comments on various teams right after Sam being drafted, draft boards like cbssports dropping him 70 spots the day after he came out, the SI.com poll, Dungee admitting he wouldn't have drafted Sam, common sense that at least one of 32 teams would do this to the first openly gay rookie. But you can't even admit to that last part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Second, your continual pointing to a college award as some kind of legitimizing notion is not a good argument if you're debating anyone with some understanding of football. Tell that to Tim Tebow, a Heisman trophy winning former "QB Of the Year" that also holds two Maxwell awards. DPOTY for a conference has never been a guarantee high draft pick. Mark Herzlick went undrafted after a DPOTY season in 2008. Greg Jones went in the 6th in 2009. AJ Klein was a 5th rounder in 2011. Pointing at the award as some kind of end all be all is just not a good tactic, DOUBLY so when a more decorated guy at the same position the same year didn't get drafted at all.
    I wasn't using the award to say "see this proves he's the best defender," only that (and i've said this in other thread) it would entice/fool some team. Every SEC dpoty has been taken top 4 rounds. That's why i bring it up. Tebow has what to do with that? He was taken in the first round! Despite his "distractions." I didn't hear any player or coach attack Tebow after he was drafted like happened to Sam

    As for your counterpoint...Herzlich had bone cancer and missed an entire season after that award and before being undrafted (he played 1 last season). Those other guys were drafted higher than Sam. Had he been taken in 5th round, there wouldn't be these suspicions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You bring up Manti Te'o, which is then laughable given your pointing to Sam's status as Co-DOPTY this year. Manti was a finalist for the best player IN ALL OF FOOTBALL at ANY POSITION the year he was coming out. At a time he was thought of as a potential top 10 pick. Then you had a bad National Championship game, a combine that wasn't anything to write home about, and the whole distraction of the catfish thing and next thing you know he's going in the mid 2nd.
    How is it laughable? You just made my point. Te'o was dropped out of fear he was gay. Right after the fake dead gf is when GMs started asking "do you like girls?" at the interviews to various rookies. Yeah i'm gonna say that's not a coincidence. But if Te'o had admitted to the obvious, he would've fallen even more. Because the NFL by and large is homophobic, very simply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Everything is about balance. The potential issues with Te'o were realistically weighed against the potential benefits he provides on the field, and it warranted him still being taken rather high in the draft. It's reasonable to suggest a 5th round talent like Sam doesn't have as much incentive for a team to overlook possible distractions as opposed to a potential 1st round talent guy like Te'o.
    Ok, so being gay is inherently a "distraction" and this is all Sam's fault, or possibly the media, but not at all the NFL. Got it. What's funny is you just spent all that time trying to convince me that i'm wrong, that Sam was *not* lowered in the draft cause of his sexuality. Now you offer up a pitiful justification for discrimination. It's too bad this was at the end, cause i wouldna bothered. You'll have to stop defending these bigots someday.

    You know what, i'm done with this thread. I've had it with apologists who can't stand to see their entertainment fix criticized in any way and soulless "win at all cost" freaks who, like Dungee, would have no courage to change the culture of hate and would just capitulate, or join in the bashing, and screw Sam over. Like Sam said, "thank god dungee isn't the Ram's coach," and thank god none of you are either.

  4. #224
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    No, not really. I don't really get why a player's sex life is that big of a deal but then I understand the games are only televised for advertisement purposes. And I think they really love these kind of distractions. They reach a different demographic.

    But there is always some soap opera **** going down in pro sports. You got to do something to make it appealing for people.

    Notice how everybody talks about it? Notice how Michael Sam shirts are flying off the shelf.

    I think it was all deliberate.
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  5. #225
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Let's put it this way: If Clowney had come out as gay, he'd still have been the #1 pick in the draft. His sky-high potential as a player would have been "worth the potential distraction" for pretty much every coach and GM in the league.

    Sam's a marginal talent with a low ceiling. That's pretty much a universal take from scouts on him. Because of that, many coaches and GM's will look at the media storm surrounding his entry into the NFL and say, "**** it, it's not worth it for a special teamer".

    If Aaron Rogers were a free agent and he decided to come out and say he was gay, all 32 teams in the NFL would still be interested in signing him. The cost of signing him is what would drop some teams out. 0 teams would say "I don't want him because he's gay and it would be a distraction to have a gay player on the team."
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    No, not really. I don't really get why a player's sex life is that big of a deal but then I understand the games are only televised for advertisement purposes. And I think they really love these kind of distractions. They reach a different demographic.

    But there is always some soap opera **** going down in pro sports. You got to do something to make it appealing for people.

    Notice how everybody talks about it? Notice how Michael Sam shirts are flying off the shelf.

    I think it was all deliberate.
    The NFL loves these kids of "distractions", coaches don't.
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  7. #227
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The NFL loves these kids of "distractions", coaches don't.
    Meh, what they do is monotonous and boring
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  8. #228
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    Meh, what they do is monotonous and boring
    The coaches or the distractions?
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  9. #229
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    simply question . . . what comments lol
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Every time I hear or read of a player, owner, GM, coach or fan saying that a gay player will be 'too much of a distraction to be worth it'; I assume that person is homophobic (to some significant extent) and the primary basis for their comments is a dislike/discomfort with homosexuals.

    Just as I believe their are FAR more racists in America then is generally thought...I feel the same way about homophobes in America.

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