View Poll Results: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sams?

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Thread: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sams?

  1. #191
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    you may be sorely disappointed when he doesnt make the 53 man squad

    i give him a 30% chance to hang on

    the issue isnt about discrimination....its about talent

    he went from a projected 3-4th rounder, all the way to the 7th because his numbers didnt stack up

    he is too small for an NFL defensive end....and too slow for an outside linebacker

    now maybe those times and his performance at the combines was an aberration....he played much better than those last year in the SEC

    but if those numbers are reality, he will have a hard time making the transition to the pros.....and it wont have crap to do with his sexual orientation
    If he doesn't then so be it, but it won't be only 7th rounders who are cut. When coaches and players are openly bashing Sam even the day he was drafted, and he's the *only* openly gay players ever in the NFL, you won't convince me it's not about discrimination as well.

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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Really, SEC defensive player of the year? He was projected 3rd-4th round before coming out.
    And he still was after coming out, until 2 weeks later where he had a disastrous combine. Those type of athletic tests generally count for more than college results in the NFL draft. It's why you see college record setters like Jordan Lynch not even get drafted.

    Granted, the draft is largely a crapshot from start to finish (Lions had a couple #3 picks go bust i recall), but you'll have a real hard time convincing me that not a single team would take him or that there's any risk compared to taking a Manti Te'o closet case who invents girlfriends and kills them off just to escape the pressure. It's harder on Sam than any of his teammates, so they can cry me a river.
    He's not much more if any of a distraction than Manti Te'o. Te'o was a 1st round talent who got bumped to the 2nd because of the same type of problems with media exposure. Still he was obviously good enough that it didn't hurt his stock all that much.

    And talk of distractions, how about the first black coach in the super bowl? The media went on about Dungee himself. Guess he should've been fired then.
    He obviously shouldn't have because Dungy was an excellent coach. When you are a good player/coach/whatever the potential for distraction hardly matters. When there are tons of other players with about equal talent to yours that can be picked in the same place, the potential for distraction becomes the type of thing that could push others over the top.

    Gipper mentioned the Giants' hire of a renowned gay basher, and that's no distraction?
    Nobody's writing front page articles about David Tyree right now. I don't see the distraction there.

    It's not only because most the NFL prefers gay bashers. Whose fault is that, Sam's? The media? I will tell you, only the NFL is to blame.
    \

    I'd say its probably the media's fault for making such a gigantic deal out of it. Luckily it really only matters for the first one. The next openly gay players in the NFL won't have the same distraction potential.

    In the end, Sam and, to a lesser extent, the Rams coach and GM will be the ones remembered.
    Maybe. If he's good enough they will. Jackie Robinson was more than just the first black baseball player. He was a six time allstar, an MVP, and helped take his team to the World Series in his first year. He's a deserving Hall of Famer. Does history remember Earl Lloyd, Nat Clifton, or Chuck Cooper, the first three black NBA players? Not really. The first black player people remember is Wilt Chamberlain, because he's one of the all time greats.

    Tell me without looking it up who won the world series any year that Jackie Robinson played.
    I could name a few, but how bout his debut year 1947 where the Yankees beat Robinson's Dodgers. In one of the games Cookie something, (forget his last name), broke up a no-hitter in the 9th with two outs to win the game.

    The Giants or Green Bay can go win the super bowl because they don't have a 'distraction' and they'll still only be remembered for their hate.
    I think they'll probably be remembered for winning the Super Bowl.
    There should be Instant Runoff Voting

  3. #193
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    you may be sorely disappointed when he doesnt make the 53 man squad

    i give him a 30% chance to hang on

    the issue isnt about discrimination....its about talent

    he went from a projected 3-4th rounder, all the way to the 7th because his numbers didnt stack up

    he is too small for an NFL defensive end....and too slow for an outside linebacker

    now maybe those times and his performance at the combines was an aberration....he played much better than those last year in the SEC

    but if those numbers are reality, he will have a hard time making the transition to the pros.....and it wont have crap to do with his sexual orientation
    Sorry but i have to add as well now that i recall it, some draft predictions immediately dropped Sam after he came out, before the combine. CBS dropped him *70 spots* the next day for example. Poor combine usually means 1 round drop or so. Suddenly they notice his size and conclude he's not nfl caliber?

    SI.com anonymous poll of coaches, *8* admitted they expect him to fall in the draft, "they project a significant drop in Sam's draft stock, a publicity circus and an NFL locker room culture not prepared to deal with an openly gay player.....All the NFL personnel members interviewed believed that Sam's announcement will cause him to drop in the draft. He was projected between the third and seventh rounds prior to the announcement."

    This was all *before* the combine! Revisionism like yours in attempt to veil widespread bigotry is what makes me sorely disappointed.

    Another for the 'distraction' crowd: Ravens RB Ray Rice suspended two games for assault charge - CBSSports.com

  4. #194
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    And he still was after coming out, until 2 weeks later where he had a disastrous combine. Those type of athletic tests generally count for more than college results in the NFL draft. It's why you see college record setters like Jordan Lynch not even get drafted.
    Nope (and sorry to others to have to repeat myself) - CBS dropped him 70 spots the next day and then there was the SI poll of current coaches : *8* admitted they expect him to fall in the draft, "they project a significant drop in Sam's draft stock, a publicity circus and an NFL locker room culture not prepared to deal with an openly gay player.....All the NFL personnel members interviewed believed that Sam's announcement will cause him to drop in the draft. He was projected between the third and seventh rounds prior to the announcement."

    Another whopper: ""I don't think football is ready for [an openly gay player] just yet," said an NFL player personnel assistant. "In the coming decade or two, it's going to be acceptable, but at this point in time it's still a man's-man game. To call somebody a [gay slur] is still so commonplace. It'd chemically imbalance an NFL locker room and meeting room."

    Now if the Rams can handle it, good for them for being the exception, i applaud them fully for living in 21st century.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    He's not much more if any of a distraction than Manti Te'o. Te'o was a 1st round talent who got bumped to the 2nd because of the same type of problems with media exposure. Still he was obviously good enough that it didn't hurt his stock all that much.
    Te'o never came out, that's my point. He obviously feared he wouldn't get drafted. He kept denying the obvious even after the dead girlfriend was discovered to be fake. All it did was lead GMs to ask at rookie interviews "do you like girls?" Do you need more evidence the NFL is deeply homophobic? I can go pull up quotes from any player who came out after leaving.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    He obviously shouldn't have because Dungy was an excellent coach. When you are a good player/coach/whatever the potential for distraction hardly matters. When there are tons of other players with about equal talent to yours that can be picked in the same place, the potential for distraction becomes the type of thing that could push others over the top.
    And that is completely wrong and it says a lot about you to not see that. "Win at all cost" mentality won't ever win me over. If they all have "equal talent" then why don't the GMs just toss a coin and let that run the 3rd-7th picks for em.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    I'd say its probably the media's fault for making such a gigantic deal out of it. Luckily it really only matters for the first one. The next openly gay players in the NFL won't have the same distraction potential.
    Why would it change minds on *other* teams? You're right it would eliminate that *excuse* and prove that a team can function with a gay player. It wouldn't make the bigotry disappear though, cause it has little to do with football. There's indications the rookies entering the league now are more tolerant. Like we saw with the general population, it'll take 5-7 years for the old guard to die off to see real change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    Maybe. If he's good enough they will. Jackie Robinson was more than just the first black baseball player. He was a six time allstar, an MVP, and helped take his team to the World Series in his first year. He's a deserving Hall of Famer. Does history remember Earl Lloyd, Nat Clifton, or Chuck Cooper, the first three black NBA players? Not really. The first black player people remember is Wilt Chamberlain, because he's one of the all time greats.
    Partly yeah. The real consideration is, was there much opposition to them joining NBA? Did they have a senator trying to ban black players? Was there media circus or open hatred of this sort? Also, Cooper was the 1st drafted, Clifton signed the contract 1st, and Lloyd played first. Who do you celebrate then? People easily get confused and lose interest by this. If 3 enter at the same time, i'm guessing they did not face the same adversity as Jackie did or Sam might. There was opportunity. People forget it because not much happened.

    ``I didn't have the race-biting and the heat all on my shoulders like Jackie Robinson,'' Cooper said before he died of cancer in 1984 at the age of 57. ``Besides, any black coming after Jackie, in any sport, had it easy compared to the turmoil he lived through.''

    They remember Wilt cause he was phenomenal but i never heard anyone say he was the first

  5. #195
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    I agree with him but for what it is worth, I wouldnt have taken Johnny Manziel for the same reasons.

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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Nope (and sorry to others to have to repeat myself) - CBS dropped him 70 spots the next day and then there was the SI poll of current coaches : *8* admitted they expect him to fall in the draft, "they project a significant drop in Sam's draft stock, a publicity circus and an NFL locker room culture not prepared to deal with an openly gay player.....All the NFL personnel members interviewed believed that Sam's announcement will cause him to drop in the draft. He was projected between the third and seventh rounds prior to the announcement."

    Another whopper: ""I don't think football is ready for [an openly gay player] just yet," said an NFL player personnel assistant. "In the coming decade or two, it's going to be acceptable, but at this point in time it's still a man's-man game. To call somebody a [gay slur] is still so commonplace. It'd chemically imbalance an NFL locker room and meeting room."

    Now if the Rams can handle it, good for them for being the exception, i applaud them fully for living in 21st century.



    Te'o never came out, that's my point. He obviously feared he wouldn't get drafted. He kept denying the obvious even after the dead girlfriend was discovered to be fake. All it did was lead GMs to ask at rookie interviews "do you like girls?" Do you need more evidence the NFL is deeply homophobic? I can go pull up quotes from any player who came out after leaving.



    And that is completely wrong and it says a lot about you to not see that. "Win at all cost" mentality won't ever win me over. If they all have "equal talent" then why don't the GMs just toss a coin and let that run the 3rd-7th picks for em.




    Why would it change minds on *other* teams? You're right it would eliminate that *excuse* and prove that a team can function with a gay player. It wouldn't make the bigotry disappear though, cause it has little to do with football. There's indications the rookies entering the league now are more tolerant. Like we saw with the general population, it'll take 5-7 years for the old guard to die off to see real change.



    Partly yeah. The real consideration is, was there much opposition to them joining NBA? Did they have a senator trying to ban black players? Was there media circus or open hatred of this sort? Also, Cooper was the 1st drafted, Clifton signed the contract 1st, and Lloyd played first. Who do you celebrate then? People easily get confused and lose interest by this. If 3 enter at the same time, i'm guessing they did not face the same adversity as Jackie did or Sam might. There was opportunity. People forget it because not much happened.

    ``I didn't have the race-biting and the heat all on my shoulders like Jackie Robinson,'' Cooper said before he died of cancer in 1984 at the age of 57. ``Besides, any black coming after Jackie, in any sport, had it easy compared to the turmoil he lived through.''

    They remember Wilt cause he was phenomenal but i never heard anyone say he was the first

    it doesnt matter what cbs sports thinks

    it doesnt matter what SI thinks or wrote

    all that matters is 32 draft rooms, and the general managers running them

    you think they listen to media reports? really?

    every pro team has a scouting department....consists of at least 6-8 guys....or more

    they watch tape, interview players and coaches, and try to determine whether or not a player can fit into their scheme...be it offensive or defensive

    they rank hundreds of players......and assign them a number of where they feel that players value falls compared to every other player in the draft pool

    someone using the SI report to grade a guy is out looking for a new job shortly thereafter

    it is a high risk/high reward job.....finding the diamonds in the rough is what these guys get paid for

    it is fairly easy to spot a #1 #1 type player.....not so easy to figure out the 6th or 7th rounder that has the ability to stick with a team

    dont read too much into the "media" crap

    if Michael Sam is good enough, he will get a shot

    and as i said before, i think his chance is 3/10 of making it
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Good for you, you are not a guy. And most football fans are guys.
    Women are 44% of the NFL fan base, like it or not.


    How New Marketing Approaches Helped The NFL Achieve Triple-Digit Growth In Women's Apparel Sales - Forbes
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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    Very recently. Has not been the norm.

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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Really, SEC defensive player of the year? He was projected 3rd-4th round before coming out. Granted, the draft is largely a crapshot from start to finish (Lions had a couple #3 picks go bust i recall), but you'll have a real hard time convincing me that not a single team would take him or that there's any risk compared to taking a Manti Te'o closet case who invents girlfriends and kills them off just to escape the pressure. It's harder on Sam than any of his teammates, so they can cry me a river.

    And talk of distractions, how about the first black coach in the super bowl? The media went on about Dungee himself. Guess he should've been fired then. Gipper mentioned the Giants' hire of a renowned gay basher, and that's no distraction? It's not only because most the NFL prefers gay bashers. Whose fault is that, Sam's? The media? I will tell you, only the NFL is to blame.

    In the end, Sam and, to a lesser extent, the Rams coach and GM will be the ones remembered. Tell me without looking it up who won the world series any year that Jackie Robinson played. The Giants or Green Bay can go win the super bowl because they don't have a 'distraction' and they'll still only be remembered for their hate.
    some team did take him....the rams

    but you are convinced that if he doesnt make it, it is because he is gay

    google Dre Kirkpatrick....or Terrence Cody....or Jamarcus Russell....or Johnathan Sullivan (georgia bulldog)

    all were great sec palyers

    all were busts in the nfl

    sometimes talent from the collegiate level doesnt translate to talent on the pro level

    just saying....
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

    The only thing worth hearing from Tony Dungy is an apology to Michael Sam


    'If Tony Dungy, who occasionally acts like the self-appointed conscience of American sports, doesn’t stop explaining what he meant about Michael Sam being a distraction and stop being this kind of public nuisance himself, he will eventually have to worry more about keeping his job on television than Sam earning his own job with the Rams.

    Whatever Dungy says about Sam and a controversy that he created, it is impossible to evaluate why he wouldn’t have wanted Sam on a football team he was coaching without putting all of this into the context of Dungy’s religious beliefs. That means his interpretation of the Bible, and an opposition to same-sex marriage that he’s decided is God’s will, as do all the other people who are as intolerant about the rights of gays as Dungy clearly is.

    We are told constantly, by the way, how clear God is on how marriage is between a man and a woman, and how strict scripture is on this subject. But you wonder how Dungy, who once criticized President Obama for his stance on gay marriage in this country, feels about this Old Testament passage about slavery:

    “If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.” If we’re being as literal here as we are about homosexuality, apparently slavery is good for six years, not so good after that.

    Dungy, who is treated more and more like some coaching giant the further he gets from his career, is entitled to his opinions, about Michael Sam, about same-sex marriage, about the Bible. He is entitled to past opinions about Michael Vick, for whom he did everything except act as a pulling guard when Vick was making a comeback after being part of a ring that killed and tortured dogs and sent him to prison. But anybody who thinks Sam, openly gay football player, is a “distraction” but that Vick wasn’t when he returned to the NFL with the Eagles, is simply a point-misser. Or carrying Dungy’s coat. Or just trying to be different.

    If Dungy himself believes that he can somehow get by saying that Sam is a distraction and that Vick was not, he is disingenuous at best and probably a hypocrite. He needs to stop talking about this now, and explaining himself, because what he is not doing is helping himself for one minute.'

    The only thing worth hearing from Tony Dungy is an apology to Michael Sam - NY Daily News

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