View Poll Results: for democratic voters

Voters
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  • Hillary Clinton

    14 30.43%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    32 69.57%
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Thread: For Democratic voters

  1. #71
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    Re: For Democratic voters

    Hilary can't win. There is a full bag of dirt ready and waiting for her. She'll never get her approval up from where it is now, but it could still slide down. Just remember how ugly it got against Obama, and he wasn't trying to (metaphorically) shoot for center mass, just wing her enough to bring her down. A Republican opponent will not provide the same courtesy.

    Elizabeth Warren is an interesting choice, and she's already shown a great gift for conflationary oratory. Her biggest argument so far has been for student loan interest easing, citing that it's wrong to make money off of students while they go to school. Unfortunately for her argument, students aren't charged interest while they are students (i.e. workers in the workforce are charged interest, not students) on a large portion of their financial aid; specifically, Pell money is a gift and Stafford subsidized loan interest is paid by the government while the student is in school. Realistically, if you can't attend school for under $15,000 a year, don't apply for scholarships, and refuse to work at least part time, you simply don't deserve the unsubsidized Stafford top-up. Basically, what I'm saying here is Warren is already pushing junk arguments at the lower class in an attempt to bribe them with at the minimum good intentions and at the maximum a bunch of public money. But she plays well for the cameras, so, whatever.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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  2. #72
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    Re: For Democratic voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Hilary can't win.
    I think that depends on who she's running against. If the GOP primary contest turns into another sideshow, I can see her being considered the lesser of two evils.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  3. #73
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    Re: For Democratic voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I think that depends on who she's running against. If the GOP primary contest turns into another sideshow, I can see her being considered the lesser of two evils.
    Hilary v Romney = Romney
    Hilary v Paul (either Paul) = Paul
    Hilary v anyone not named "Bush" = anyone not named "Bush"
    Hilary v Jeb = .... Russia. Russia wins if that happens.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  4. #74
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    Re: For Democratic voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Hilary v Romney = Romney
    Hilary v Paul (either Paul) = Paul
    Hilary v anyone not named "Bush" = anyone not named "Bush"
    Hilary v Jeb = .... Russia. Russia wins if that happens.
    Romney would lose in a landslide. Ron's not going to run; Rand might have a shot, maybe. Anyone not named Bush? Seriously?
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  5. #75
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    Re: For Democratic voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Romney would lose in a landslide. Ron's not going to run; Rand might have a shot, maybe. Anyone not named Bush? Seriously?
    Yeah, seriously. While Hillary is wildly popular among Democrats, she is just as unpopular among Republicans. Registered and Likely Voters are just as likely to vote for her as against her (not for the other guy, but against her). This ties her star to the Democratic Party as a whole, and that star is fading by the day. The current administration's poll numbers are dropping; the economy is not in significantly better shape yet and even a surge in 2016 might not be enough to pass on a Democrat-branded warm fuzzy feeling; Democrats always seem to do worse when the world's stage heats up, and the world's stage is heating up; Republicans have plenty of ammo for aiming at the middle a'la Obamacare, Iraq/Syria/Russia, the stagnant recovery, broken promises, the fact that "Blame Bush" is wearing very thin as an excuse...

    And that's just the party itself. For Hillary the Candidate, her poll numbers will not increase among independents when the mud starts slinging. While I'm tired of hearing about it, Benghazi is going to play. Her time at the State Department is going to be painted as an incompetent second fiddle to an administration interested in meddling with forces they couldn't control. The only reaction Hillary will have in the face of this onslaught is going to be repeatedly showing pictures of herself in the situation room when they took Osama down. And that shtick isn't going to have the mileage she thinks it will. If that's not enough, there's still plenty of fodder they can throw at her about her husband. Conservative and Independent women see her as a woman who was cheated on and didn't seem to care too much when her husband got caught; while this plays for the Democratic female voter as worthy of sympathy and "strength of character", those who don't have a reason to like her will continue to see her complicity as opportunistic and shady.

    Romney lost ground to Obama because Obama painted the picture of poor-kid-makes-good, which was helped by his racial background (an unfortunate truth, but I'm not in the habit of ignoring things simply because they are inconvenient or not politically correct). Romney lost the election the day his "47%" comment went live, and ONLY because his opponent was already poised as a success story and trying to get the out-of-touch label to stick to the "old rich white guy". That's the day it stuck for good, and that's the day it was over. Hillary is an old rich white lady who has already lived in the White House. I don't know how old you are, but the talk at the time in the 90's was all about how Hillary was actually calling the shots back then, usurping power from her elected spouse and wielding it like a queen. This type of rhetoric will come back 100-fold the day her candidacy is announced. She's already rich, out-of-touch, beltway royalty.

    There is no one who can't win against her, saving an act of god, a murder scandal, or the last name of Bush. That is to say, any Republican who can get the nomination has great chances against Hillary. Be that as it may, she's still a Democratic primary favorite. The nom is hers if she wants it. If she takes it... we're going to have a Republican White House for at least four years.
    Last edited by Gonzo Rodeo; 07-22-14 at 05:37 AM.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  6. #76
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    Re: For Democratic voters

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I would prefer Warren, but Clinton is the more electable candidate. I don't feel particularly strongly about either though and I've been thinking about simply refusing to vote for some of the upcoming races.
    With Hillary's record of lack of accomplishment, and all the baggage she's schlepping along (all ammunition for the opposition), you call her the most electable candidate?

    Warren's far too progressive for the electorate to go for her, progressives are among the smallest voting block. That consistency you speak of is going to give her very limited appeal.

    Of course, you can throw all of that out the window as soon as they start the 'vote with your vagina' thing.

    The level of rational thought of the current electorate gives to voting is most disturbing.
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  7. #77
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    Re: For Democratic voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Hilary v Romney = Romney
    Hilary v Paul (either Paul) = Paul
    Hilary v anyone not named "Bush" = anyone not named "Bush"
    Hilary v Jeb = .... Russia. Russia wins if that happens.
    If that is who you would want, fine.

    But if those are your predictions, I think you are way off.

  8. #78
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    Re: For Democratic voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    There is no one who can't win against her, saving an act of god, a murder scandal, or the last name of Bush. That is to say, any Republican who can get the nomination has great chances against Hillary. Be that as it may, she's still a Democratic primary favorite. The nom is hers if she wants it. If she takes it... we're going to have a Republican White House for at least four years.
    I'm not saying you're wrong, because who the heck knows, but the polls just don't reflect what you're saying. For example, here are some polls - I'll link to the Huckabee v Clinton results (Clinton + 7 to +13) but you can look at Clinton v Christie, Paul, Ryan, and Cruz there as well. She wins all those polls in what would be electoral landslides.

    RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Huckabee vs. Clinton

    Here's PPP's summary from June 2014:

    However, a potential match-up between Bush and Hillary Clinton is a dead heat right now, with Clinton picking up 46% to Bush’s 45%.
    ....
    The other potential Republican match-ups with Clinton do not come nearly as close as Bush. Clinton leads Chris Christie 46/38, Ted Cruz 50/39, Mike Huckabee 48/41, Rand Paul 48/42, and Rubio 48/44. Clinton picks up a majority of both moderates and younger voters in all of these other match-ups.
    Last edited by JasperL; 07-22-14 at 01:23 PM.

  9. #79
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    Re: For Democratic voters

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    If that is who you would want, fine.

    But if those are your predictions, I think you are way off.
    I don't want anything in particular. I just don't see any mainstream Republicans (those who could win the primary at least) losing to Hillary. The middle has never been hot for her.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  10. #80
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    Re: For Democratic voters

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'm not saying you're wrong, because who the heck knows, but the polls just don't reflect what you're saying. For example, here are some polls - I'll link to the Huckabee v Clinton results (Clinton + 7 to +13) but you can look at Clinton v Christie, Paul, Ryan, and Cruz there as well. She wins all those polls in what would be electoral landslides.

    RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Huckabee vs. Clinton

    Here's PPP's summary from June 2014:
    We are more than two years out from the primaries. Not only is there no campaign in either direction yet (which will play into the cornucopia of ready made canned arguments against Clinton), but polls conducted on hypothetical match ups aren't really shedding any light on how people will vote. For example, in this case we have one solid Democratic front runner being pitting against several potential conservative candidates. For the people who like Paul Ryan, how did they answer the match-up question about Christie? Maybe they like Ryan because they think Christie is weak and would lose to Clinton. This doesn't say anything about Clinton. Moreover, if you have conservative poll data, it can be skewed to represent a "threat" in Hillary in order to cause solidarity; likewise, liberal poll data can do much the same thing to try to build early momentum for a candidate.

    Essentially, you're asking people who would win a fistfight between Nessie and Bigfoot, or Nessie and the Chupacabra, or Nessie and Zeus. All I'm saying is that we all know Nessie has a glass jaw. And no fists.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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