View Poll Results: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dead?

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  • Yes Putin would still be expanding with Romney

    15 78.95%
  • No

    4 21.05%
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Thread: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dead?

  1. #11
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    Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    The last time Russia supplied a former satellite nation in a civil war that was actually just a surrogate for Moscow, it was a strong Democrat President that led NATO and the UN to action. This time...

    Yes, the poll is simplistic and the question of whether or not Russia would be doing this if Romney were President cannot be realistically answered. What IS debatable, is what would potentially be different in the response by the US if just about anyone else were President, including Hillary, because I seriously doubt her response would be finger wagging and a stern talking to - nor would Romney's, or at least that's what I believe.
    True, but...

    There was a question of ethnic cleansing in former yugoslavia. There isn't any such question here. While the fault line is along (blurry) ethnic divides the conflict itself isn't ethnic. It's political.

    I am sure that if this conflict would gain such a dimension then a response from NATO and the UN would be much more severe and much stronger. But it won't, so it won't.

  2. #12
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    Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

    As I recall, didn't Putin invade Georgia under Bush's watch? Everyone seems to forget that. Really, though, it's irrelevant to Putin as to who the current U.S President, British Prime Minister, or German chancellor is. He has an expansionist timetable that he is adhering to no matter what.
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    Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

    Quote Originally Posted by Graffias View Post
    As I recall, didn't Putin invade Georgia under Bush's watch? Everyone seems to forget that. Really, though, it's irrelevant to Putin as to who the current U.S President, British Prime Minister, or German chancellor is. He has an expansionist timetable that he is adhering to no matter what.
    Putin invading Georgia was different, we had a Republican as President. He was busy losing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the fact that he did nothing showed his resolve to keep that record up with Russia. See at how intimidating he looked too...

    Last edited by iguanaman; 07-18-14 at 02:20 AM.

  4. #14
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    Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    DutchNews.nl - Ukraine air disaster leaves 295 dead, 154 are Dutch nationals

    I do wonder if the ultra leftists of Western Europeans are still happy, especially the Dutch, that Obama was elected, seeing as 154 Dutch just were killed by Vladimir Putin's expansionist forces, rebels.




    Ukraine air disaster leaves 295 dead, 154 are Dutch nationals

    Thursday 17 July 2014

    Smouldering wreckage at the crash site. Photo: Reuters

    At least 154 Dutch nationals were on board the Malaysian Airlines plane thought to have been brought down by a rocket over Ukraine.
    Malaysian Airways spokesman Huib Gorter told a press conference at Amsterdamís Schiphol airport on Thursday evening 154 Dutch nationals, 27 Australians, 23 Malaysian, 11 Indonesians, six British nationals, four Germans, four Belgians, three Filipinos and one Canadian were on board.

    The nationality of 47 other passengers has not yet been determined.

    The Malaysian Airways plane left Schiphol airport on Thursday afternoon with 295 people on board and crashed in Ukraine shortly after 14.15 hours.

    The Boeing 777, with 280 passengers and 15 crew, was en route for Kuala Lumpur.

    The Ukraine authorities say the plane was brought down by pro-Russian separatists but this has been denied by the groups themselves, broadcaster Nos said.

    According to American media reports, the plane was brought down by some form of rocket. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has described it as 'an act of terrorism'.

    According to website nu.nl, airspace over Ukraine has been closed. Other media reports say some airlines are now avoiding Ukraine.
    King
    Dutch king Willem-Alexander issued a statement saying he was 'deeply shocked' by the news.

    'We offer our deepest sympathy to the families, friends and colleagues of the victims and to those who are still uncertain if their loved ones were on board the plane,' the short statement said.

    The Dutch foreign ministry has opened a phone line for relatives to ring for further information: 00 31 70 348 77 70.
    Independent inquiry
    Journalist Noah Sneider said on Twitter: 'At crash site of #MH17. Bodies everywhere, organs splayed out. Too gruesome to post photographs. This is an absolute disaster. #ukraine.'
    Dutch foreign minister Frans Timmermans has said investigators must have 'unhindered access' to the crash site. There must be an independent investigation into the disaster, he said.
    The foreign ministry is sending extra officials to Kiev to help out at the Dutch embassy.
    BBC news reports
    New York Times journalist at the scene
    Kyiv Post report of transcript featuring pro Russian rebels discussing downing of plane.
    © DutchNews.nl

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    Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    DutchNews.nl - Ukraine air disaster leaves 295 dead, 154 are Dutch nationals

    I do wonder if the ultra leftists of Western Europeans are still happy, especially the Dutch, that Obama was elected, seeing as 154 Dutch just were killed by Vladimir Putin's expansionist forces, rebels.




    Ukraine air disaster leaves 295 dead, 154 are Dutch nationals

    Thursday 17 July 2014

    Smouldering wreckage at the crash site. Photo: Reuters

    At least 154 Dutch nationals were on board the Malaysian Airlines plane thought to have been brought down by a rocket over Ukraine.
    Malaysian Airways spokesman Huib Gorter told a press conference at Amsterdamís Schiphol airport on Thursday evening 154 Dutch nationals, 27 Australians, 23 Malaysian, 11 Indonesians, six British nationals, four Germans, four Belgians, three Filipinos and one Canadian were on board.

    The nationality of 47 other passengers has not yet been determined.

    The Malaysian Airways plane left Schiphol airport on Thursday afternoon with 295 people on board and crashed in Ukraine shortly after 14.15 hours.

    The Boeing 777, with 280 passengers and 15 crew, was en route for Kuala Lumpur.

    The Ukraine authorities say the plane was brought down by pro-Russian separatists but this has been denied by the groups themselves, broadcaster Nos said.

    According to American media reports, the plane was brought down by some form of rocket. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has described it as 'an act of terrorism'.

    According to website nu.nl, airspace over Ukraine has been closed. Other media reports say some airlines are now avoiding Ukraine.
    King
    Dutch king Willem-Alexander issued a statement saying he was 'deeply shocked' by the news.

    'We offer our deepest sympathy to the families, friends and colleagues of the victims and to those who are still uncertain if their loved ones were on board the plane,' the short statement said.

    The Dutch foreign ministry has opened a phone line for relatives to ring for further information: 00 31 70 348 77 70.
    Independent inquiry
    Journalist Noah Sneider said on Twitter: 'At crash site of #MH17. Bodies everywhere, organs splayed out. Too gruesome to post photographs. This is an absolute disaster. #ukraine.'
    Dutch foreign minister Frans Timmermans has said investigators must have 'unhindered access' to the crash site. There must be an independent investigation into the disaster, he said.
    The foreign ministry is sending extra officials to Kiev to help out at the Dutch embassy.
    BBC news reports
    New York Times journalist at the scene
    Kyiv Post report of transcript featuring pro Russian rebels discussing downing of plane.
    © DutchNews.nl
    I don't think it would have probably mattered, I do not think any one who ran would likely have gotten us into a war over the Ukraine, nor would any of them likely to run have done significantly more than Obama. However, and it is important to say, speculating one what would have been if only things where different is kinda silly, much like using much larger fonts in your posts...
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  6. #16
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    Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    The poll is insufficiently varied.

    You gave us 2 stupid options, both of which are wrong:

    a) yes, he would be expanding under romney (hurr durr, obama is good)
    b) no (hurr durr, obama is weak)

    When in fact the correct options would be either one of these:
    c) I don't know and uninformed, partisan speculation like this is stupid.
    d) No, I don't think it matters who the US president is, Putins' agenda is independent of that of the USA's because the US will not intervene on behalf of Ukraine since it's not in NATO

    I know some of these are larger than the characters allowed in the options of the polls, but make an effort, when creating the poll and presenting information, to not be simple.

    Exactly...because Bush did SO much when Putin attacked Georgia...
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

  7. #17
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    Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Exactly...because Bush did SO much when Putin attacked Georgia...
    Too bad the poll didnt have McCain/Palin options.
    We would never have heard of Romney--and quite possibly anyone else for that matter .
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    Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Too bad the poll didnt have McCain/Palin options.
    We would never have heard of Romney--and quite possibly anyone else for that matter .
    Amazing how the ODS folk have to make every single news story Obama's fault. Just like the BDS folk that blamed every bug fart on Bush.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

  9. #19
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    Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

    I was not aware that Obama was the president of Russia, because how else could he have stopped Putin. Also, if first has to be proven that Putin had anything to do with the shooting down the this plane.

    Obama is the leader of the United States, not the world. His powers might be considerable, he is not omnipotent.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

    [/FONT]
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I don't think it would have probably mattered, I do not think any one who ran would likely have gotten us into a war over the Ukraine, nor would any of them likely to run have done significantly more than Obama. However, and it is important to say, speculating one what would have been if only things where different is kinda silly, much like using much larger fonts in your posts...
    funny
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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