View Poll Results: Is homosexuality "normak" and "natural"?

Voters
144. You may not vote on this poll
  • Homosexuality is normal

    68 47.22%
  • Homosexuality is not normal

    46 31.94%
  • Homosexuality is natural

    92 63.89%
  • Homosexuality is not natural

    19 13.19%
  • Other/unsure

    12 8.33%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

  1. #441
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which would, of course, make left-handed people abnormal. Most people don't think of abnormality as simply falling out of the statistical average, but as something that is actually wrong with the individual. You could also use it, under the same terms, to refer to black people as abnormal. That's why I'd hesitate to use the term "normal" to refer to something that is perfectly fine, even if it only applies to a minority.
    Like I said before... normal and natural are homophobic arguments attempting to make homosexuality appear "deviant", as you outline here.
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  2. #442
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    Wow this is an absurd argument you are trying to create. So your position is that up until recently homosexuality was nothing but a bunch of people randomly having sex with their own gender, no attraction - no affection - no desire for relationships, and that it was only recently that they began to experience constant attraction to their own gender?
    Agreed. All of a sudden a bunch of men decided that, hey, I want to try something never done before and fall in love with another man and/or be exclusively attracted to men only? It doesn't make any sense...
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  3. #443
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    Homosexuality as a state is the constant attraction to your own sex. On what basis are you assuming that it is new? There are documentation of self identified homosexulas who describe their attraction to their own gender which would confirm that it is not cultural nor new.


    Yes actually some of them do. Homosexuality, the state, is the attraction to the same gender. This attraction leads to relationships and affection that is not only demonstrated as a form of foreplay to immediate sex. Many animals do in fact form couples with their own gender - pairings that includes not only sex but affection.

    Homosexual behavior in animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Penguins
    .../....
    ....
    But it is Disingenuous Not to Include Wiki's CONTEXT that precedes it.
    YOUR LINK.

    Preceded by:

    [...] According to Bruce Bagemihl, "the animal kingdom [does] it with much greater sexual diversity – including homosexual, bisexual and nonreproductive sex – than the scientific community and society at large have previously been willing to accept."[5] Bagemihl adds, however, that this is "necessarily an account of human interpretations of these phenomena".[6]

    Simon Levay introduced the further caveat that "[a]lthough homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very Uncommon that individual animals have a Long-lasting Predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities.
    Thus, a homosexual orientation, IF one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a Rarity."
    [7]
    [........]
    Applying the term homosexual to animals

    The term homosexual was coined by Karl-Maria Kertbeny in 1868 to describe same-sex sexual attraction and sexual behavior in humans.[13]
    Its use in animal studies has been Controversial for two main reasons: animal sexuality and motivating factors have been and remain poorly understood, and the term has strong cultural implications in western society that are IRRELEVANT for species other than humans.[14] Thus homosexual behavior has been given a number of terms over the years. When describing animals, the term homosexual is preferred over gay, lesbian, and other terms Currently in use, as these are seen as even more bound to human homosexuality.[15]

    Animal preference and motivation is always inferred from behavior. In wild animals, researchers will as a rule not be able to map the entire life of an individual, and must infer from frequency of single observations of behavior. The correct usage of the term homosexual is that an animal exhibits homosexual behavior or even same-sex sexual behavior; however, this article conforms to the usage by modern research,[15][16][17][18][19] applying the term homosexuality to all sexual behavior (copulation, genital stimulation, mating games and sexual display behavior) between animals of the same sex. In most instances, it is presumed that the homosexual behavior is but Part of the animal's overall sexual behavioral repertoire, making the animal "bisexual" rather than "homosexual" as the terms are commonly understood in humans,[18] but cases of homosexual preference and exclusive homosexual pairs are known.[20]
    [.......]

    So it's really NOT generally analogous to using the term as it is applied to humans.
    That would be further answer to Cephus in #413 as well.
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  4. #444
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    In most instances, it is presumed that the homosexual behavior is but Part of the animal's overall sexual behavioral repertoire, making the animal "bisexual" rather than "homosexual" as the terms are commonly understood in humans,[18] but cases of homosexual preference and exclusive homosexual pairs are known.[20]
    Just out of curiosity, are you claiming that homo- and heterosexual activity are not both part of a human being's overall sexual behavior repertoire?
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  5. #445
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    ...
    From your own quote

    but cases of homosexual preference and exclusive homosexual pairs are known.

    And then the page goes on to point out just those instances.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

  6. #446
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    latest USA poll shows only 2.3% of the pop. is gay.

    I think that makes it by DEFINITION, Abnormal(def.deviating from what is normal or usual)

    That's science talk folks, and none of you ever question the mighty SCIENCE!!!!

  7. #447
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    latest USA poll shows only 2.3% of the pop. is gay.

    I think that makes it by DEFINITION, Abnormal(def.deviating from what is normal or usual)

    That's science talk folks, and none of you ever question the mighty SCIENCE!!!!
    In order for science to talk, there has to be an established scientific standard for whatever thing. I will await the publication of said standard.

  8. #448
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    From your own quote

    And then the page goes on to point out just those instances.
    Holy Crap!
    That's about as Disingenuous a 'quote'/Short quote as I have ever seen!
    Even worse than YOUR leaving out the Wiki preface altogether!

    And I have to laugh at the Irony of you saying "From your own quote", when the Great BULK of my post that Refuted you was from "YOUR own Link"! that you DISHONESTLY left off in favor of the little zoo you posted.
    "My own quote", you gotta love it!


    So my Debunking of your attempt to Mislead by short-quoting Wiki by leaving off the context stands.
    Animal 'Homosexuality', as the term is applied to humans, is
    1. [in VAST majority] "Irrelevant"
    2. "A Rarity" in cases that are even remotely similar.

    and your listing of all those animals was intentionally deceptive.
    Of course you didn't address the Bulk of "my own quote" from YOUR Link, explaining that 'homosexuality' in animals is part of a repertoire of behaviors that are Not generally a long-lasting preference.
    One cannot debate someone using this dishonest tactic that leaves off the meat.


    EDIT:
    I've already answered the below, which, if anything, admits homosexuality Isn't normal.
    It also again, SHORT-QUOTES the meat of my post because he Cannot address it.
    One cannot debate someone who doesn't quote nor address the Gist of what was said.
    Last edited by mbig; 07-16-14 at 08:03 PM.
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  9. #449
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Holy Crap!
    Whoa cool your panties. lmao.

    It was your quote from my link - nothing deceptive about that.

    And secondly your quote does in fact say -


    but cases of homosexual preference and exclusive homosexual pairs are known.
    I'm not arguing that homosexuality is normal, as in it is prevalent. If we are asking if there such a thing as homosexuality among animals other than humans - the most primitive definition of the term homosexuality then there is documentation that concludes that yes there is.

    How high do you have to move your goal post to read documentations of birds who not only have sex with each other but also raise offspring together to disingenuously claim that it is not a form of homosexuality?

    Elephants who have sex with each other and continue to stay together for years.

    You are being deceptive by trying to dismiss what is clearly shown by those examples of animal homosexuality. And your quotation from my link does not dismiss that. It speculates what homosexuality means to animals and whether or not it relevant to them as it is to us, but it does not say that the term Homosexuality, even EXCLUSIVE HOMOSEXUALITY, is not applicable to animals outside of Humans.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

  10. #450
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    I've already answered the below, which, if anything, admits homosexuality Isn't normal.
    It also again, SHORT-QUOTES the meat of my post because he Cannot address it.
    That's fine you don't have to respond, but I will point out that I never claimed that homosexuality is normal. So your whole contention with my argument was built upon your misunderstanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

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