View Poll Results: Is homosexuality "normak" and "natural"?

Voters
144. You may not vote on this poll
  • Homosexuality is normal

    68 47.22%
  • Homosexuality is not normal

    46 31.94%
  • Homosexuality is natural

    92 63.89%
  • Homosexuality is not natural

    19 13.19%
  • Other/unsure

    12 8.33%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

  1. #421
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    As others have pointed out, it all depends on how you want to define the terms. May as well be asking "which definition of 'normal' do you want to use here?"
    The issue with definitions is a big part of the purpose of the thread. The lack of definition provided was very intentional.

    In the strictest sense of the word, homosexuality is not the norm, so it is not normal. There can be no denying that "heterosexual sex has been the norm among humans throughout their existence."
    I am not asking about homosexual sex, but homosexuality. The state of being instead of the action.

    If by normal and natural we simply mean that it occurs in nature, then I think we can all agree that it's not some form of supernatural phenomenon.
    I do not follow your point here.
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    As others have pointed out, it all depends on how you want to define the terms.
    That's right, so define your terms and state your position.

  3. #423
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am not asking about homosexual sex, but homosexuality. The state of being instead of the action.
    The "state of being" as you call it didn't come into existence until very recently [at least in western culture], so I would say it is more cultural than natural.

    I do not follow your point here.
    There are people who claim that homosexuality is "natural" simply because it occurs in nature. If we wish to use that definition of the term, then one could argue that pretty much anything and everything is "natural" - the term becomes somewhat meaningless.

    Of course that only applies to homosexual sex. Animals don't have a homosexual "state of being."

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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's right, so define your terms and state your position.
    I don't see there being one objectively "correct" use of terms - I guess that's my position. I listed two above; both of which I think are correct but not very useful in terms of stimulating debate.

  5. #425
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    No kidding. I've been trying to explain to Gath that gays can reproduce for this reason (well, to have kids) for a long time and just doesn't seem to believe it.

    I also find it bemusing how they ignore that jerking off feels good for the same exact reason sex does, and it in fact lowers the sex drive temporarily...so it acts counter to this "instinct" to reproduce. How come we're built so that our hands can reach down there so readily if orgasm is solely to encourage reproduction? How come anal sex feels good for that matter? They can't account for non-reproductive orgasm at all.
    I hear yah and I have no idea what the disconnect is in accepting this... *shrugs*
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  6. #426
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    The "state of being" as you call it didn't come into existence until very recently [at least in western culture], so I would say it is more cultural than natural.
    Homosexuality as a state is the constant attraction to your own sex. On what basis are you assuming that it is new? There are documentation of self identified homosexulas who describe their attraction to their own gender which would confirm that it is not cultural nor new.

    Of course that only applies to homosexual sex. Animals don't have a homosexual "state of being."
    Yes actually some of them do. Homosexuality, the state, is the attraction to the same gender. This attraction leads to relationships and affection that is not only demonstrated as a form of foreplay to immediate sex. Many animals do in fact form couples with their own gender - pairings that includes not only sex but affection.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosex...ior_in_animals
    Penguins
    Penguins have been observed to engage in homosexual behaviour since at least as early as 1911.
    In early February 2004 the New York Times reported that Roy and Silo, a male pair of chinstrap penguins in the Central Park Zoo in New York City had successfully hatched and fostered a female chick from a fertile egg they had been given to incubate. Other penguins in New York zoos have also been reported to have formed same-sex pairs.
    Zoos in Japan and Germany have also documented homosexual male penguin couples. The couples have been shown to build nests together and use a stone as a substitute for an egg. Researchers at Rikkyo University in Tokyo found 20 homosexual pairs at 16 major aquariums and zoos in Japan.
    The Bremerhaven Zoo in Germany attempted to encourage reproduction of endangered Humboldt penguins by importing females from Sweden and separating three male pairs, but this was unsuccessful. The zoo's director said that the relationships were "too strong" between the homosexual pairs.

    Vultures
    In 1998 two male Griffon vultures named Dashik and Yehuda, at the Jerusalem Biblical Zoo, engaged in "open and energetic sex" and built a nest. The keepers provided the couple with an artificial egg, which the two parents took turns incubating; and 45 days later, the zoo replaced the egg with a baby vulture. The two male vultures raised the chick together. A few years later, however, Yehuda became interested in a female vulture that was brought into the aviary. Dashik became depressed, and was eventually moved to the zoological research garden at Tel Aviv University where he too set up a nest with a female vulture.

    Elephants
    African and Asian males will engage in same-sex bonding and mounting. Such encounters are often associated with affectionate interactions, such as kissing, trunk intertwining, and placing trunks in each other's mouths. Male elephants, who often live apart from the general herd, often form "companionships", consisting of an older individual and one or sometimes two younger, attendant males with sexual behavior being an important part of the social dynamic. Unlike heterosexual relations, which are always of a fleeting nature, the relationships between males may last for years. The encounters are analogous to heterosexual bouts, one male often extending his trunk along the other's back and pushing forward with his tusks to signify his intention to mount. Same-sex relations are common and frequent in both sexes, with Asiatic elephants in captivity devoting roughly 45% of sexual encounters to same-sex activity.

    Japanese macaque
    With the Japanese macaque, also known as the "snow monkey", same-sex relations are frequent, though rates vary between troops. Females will form "consortships" characterized by affectionate social and sexual activities. In some troops up to one quarter of the females form such bonds, which vary in duration from a few days to a few weeks. Often, strong and lasting friendships result from such pairings. Males also have same-sex relations, typically with multiple partners of the same age. Affectionate and playful activities are associated with such relations.

    Lions
    Both male and female lions have been seen to interact homosexually. Male lions pair-bond for a number of days and initiate homosexual activity with affectionate nuzzling and caressing, leading to mounting and thrusting. About 8% of mountings have been observed to occur with other males.
    Last edited by Zinthaniel; 07-16-14 at 06:59 PM.
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  7. #427
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    The "state of being" as you call it didn't come into existence until very recently [at least in western culture], so I would say it is more cultural than natural.


    There are people who claim that homosexuality is "natural" simply because it occurs in nature. If we wish to use that definition of the term, then one could argue that pretty much anything and everything is "natural" - the term becomes somewhat meaningless.

    Of course that only applies to homosexual sex. Animals don't have a homosexual "state of being."
    The "state of being" regarding homosexuality has been around for thousands of years...

    ...and that is the point. Something being "natural" is meaningless. It is a term that homophobic people use to attempt to use in order to make homosexuality appear deviant because it isn't "natural", whatever that means.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  8. #428
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    Homosexuality as a state is the constant attraction to your own sex. On what basis are you assuming that it is new? There are documentation of self identified homosexulas who describe their attraction to their own gender which would confirm that it is not cultural nor new.


    Yes actually some of them do. Homosexuality, the state, is the attraction to the same gender. This attraction leads to relationships and affection that is not only demonstrated as a form of foreplay to immediate sex. Many animals do in fact form couples with their own gender - pairing that includes not only sex but affection.

    Penguins
    Penguins have been observed to engage in homosexual behaviour since at least as early as 1911.
    In early February 2004 the New York Times reported that Roy and Silo, a male pair of chinstrap penguins in the Central Park Zoo in New York City had successfully hatched and fostered a female chick from a fertile egg they had been given to incubate. Other penguins in New York zoos have also been reported to have formed same-sex pairs.
    Zoos in Japan and Germany have also documented homosexual male penguin couples. The couples have been shown to build nests together and use a stone as a substitute for an egg. Researchers at Rikkyo University in Tokyo found 20 homosexual pairs at 16 major aquariums and zoos in Japan.
    The Bremerhaven Zoo in Germany attempted to encourage reproduction of endangered Humboldt penguins by importing females from Sweden and separating three male pairs, but this was unsuccessful. The zoo's director said that the relationships were "too strong" between the homosexual pairs.

    Vultures
    In 1998 two male Griffon vultures named Dashik and Yehuda, at the Jerusalem Biblical Zoo, engaged in "open and energetic sex" and built a nest. The keepers provided the couple with an artificial egg, which the two parents took turns incubating; and 45 days later, the zoo replaced the egg with a baby vulture. The two male vultures raised the chick together. A few years later, however, Yehuda became interested in a female vulture that was brought into the aviary. Dashik became depressed, and was eventually moved to the zoological research garden at Tel Aviv University where he too set up a nest with a female vulture.

    Elephants
    African and Asian males will engage in same-sex bonding and mounting. Such encounters are often associated with affectionate interactions, such as kissing, trunk intertwining, and placing trunks in each other's mouths. Male elephants, who often live apart from the general herd, often form "companionships", consisting of an older individual and one or sometimes two younger, attendant males with sexual behavior being an important part of the social dynamic. Unlike heterosexual relations, which are always of a fleeting nature, the relationships between males may last for years. The encounters are analogous to heterosexual bouts, one male often extending his trunk along the other's back and pushing forward with his tusks to signify his intention to mount. Same-sex relations are common and frequent in both sexes, with Asiatic elephants in captivity devoting roughly 45% of sexual encounters to same-sex activity.

    Japanese macaque
    With the Japanese macaque, also known as the "snow monkey", same-sex relations are frequent, though rates vary between troops. Females will form "consortships" characterized by affectionate social and sexual activities. In some troops up to one quarter of the females form such bonds, which vary in duration from a few days to a few weeks. Often, strong and lasting friendships result from such pairings. Males also have same-sex relations, typically with multiple partners of the same age. Affectionate and playful activities are associated with such relations.

    Lions
    Both male and female lions have been seen to interact homosexually. Male lions pair-bond for a number of days and initiate homosexual activity with affectionate nuzzling and caressing, leading to mounting and thrusting. About 8% of mountings have been observed to occur with other males.
    After reading this I was thinking, "I like this guy" but immediately realized that type of statement could be taken out of context in a thread like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  9. #429
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I don't see there being one objectively "correct" use of terms -
    And that's why this topic will never stop being talked about. It's whatever you want it to be.

  10. #430
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    We of course "don't have to".. of course without it, no More us. Funny about evolution.
    It gives us 'Natural' desires.

    I would refer you to ChrisL's post #386:

    "Yes, well you may have sex because it feels good, but mother nature has her own reasons for sex feeling good. I believe it is designed to feel good so that you will want to do it. Of course, because we are intelligent creatures, we are aware that sex leads to babies, so we use precautions. It's not like it's something you would be aware of anyways. MOST men are attracted to beautiful healthy-looking and young women. There are reasons for this."

    And your replies are Tiresome PC, NOT addressing evolution or the respective genders obviously reciprocal organs and Millions of years of evolution and procreation.
    No one says homosexuality doesn't exist/isn't possible/or is immoral, it's just Contrary to their genders' parts/evolution.
    To this you have No reply- of course...except, like the debater before you, this behavior also exists in other animals.

    So unless there's something meatier forthcoming..
    It would help if you answered the question in post #418. The post you cited from ChrisL isn't addressing it.
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