View Poll Results: Is homosexuality "normak" and "natural"?

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  • Homosexuality is normal

    68 47.22%
  • Homosexuality is not normal

    46 31.94%
  • Homosexuality is natural

    92 63.89%
  • Homosexuality is not natural

    19 13.19%
  • Other/unsure

    12 8.33%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

  1. #311
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Are wires crossed to make a person left handed?
    Being left handed or right handed isn't an instinct.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I can't believe you cannot understand this concept. Unreal and QUITE sad and pathetic.
    So you have twenty kids? Twenty-two? I understand what you are saying Chris... it is just that what you are saying IS WRONG. It is too simplistic. That is what I have been trying to convey to you. Your argument is as sophomoric as saying that the reason that food tastes good is so that we eat it. Well, not all food tastes good. Most grains are simply grass and it was not until crop origins and domestication that we were able to make them taste good. Some people are allergic to strawberry's and will die if they eat them. Well, food tasting good is a BY-PRODUCT of us having to eat. We eat for nutrition, not for taste. Kids are a BY-PRODUCT of wanting to have sex. We have sex because it feels good, not to have kids UNLESS the couple SPECIFICALLY WANTS A KID. That said, we don't even have to have sex. That affirms my logic even further... Look, you don't get it and most likely never will... eighteen kids? Twenty-three?
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  3. #313
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    So you have twenty kids? Twenty-two? I understand what you are saying Chris... it is just that what you are saying IS WRONG. It is too simplistic. That is what I have been trying to convey to you. Your argument is as sophomoric as saying that the reason that food tastes good is so that we eat it. Well, not all food tastes good. Most grains are simply grass and it was not until crop origins and domestication that we were able to make them taste good. Some people are allergic to strawberry's and will die if they eat them. Well, food tasting good is a BY-PRODUCT of us having to eat. Kids are a BY-PRODUCT of wanting to have sex. That said, we don't even have to have sex. That affirms my logic even further... Look, you don't get it and most likely never will... eighteen kids? Twenty-three?
    It absolutely is not. None of the examples you give are instincts anyways, and you are being silly. Sex feels good so that we will have sex. If it didn't feel good, probably women ESPECIALLY would not want to have sex.

  4. #314
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It absolutely is not. None of the examples you give are instincts anyways, and you are being silly. Sex feels good so that we will have sex. If it didn't feel good, probably women ESPECIALLY would not want to have sex.
    Eating isn't an instinct?

    Now I KNOW that you are out of your depth...
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Eating isn't an instinct?

    Now I KNOW that you are out of your depth...
    Actually, you're right. Eating probably would be an instinct, but that doesn't make your argument any less silly. Of course if food tasted horrible, we wouldn't eat it. I eat plenty of natural foods and they are delicious, so I don't know what you're talking about.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Being left handed or right handed isn't an instinct.
    So what are you saying? That we choose to be right or left handed? I doubt that, but I can't see where else you are going.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Actually, you're right. Eating probably would be an instinct, but that doesn't make your argument any less silly. Of course if food tasted horrible, we wouldn't eat it. I eat plenty of natural foods and they are delicious, so I don't know what you're talking about.
    And if sex didn't feel good but we wanted the species to survive we would still do it...

    We don't have sex to have children, we have sex to feel good.
    We don't eat to taste yummy food, we eat to remain alive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    So what are you saying? That we choose to be right or left handed? I doubt that, but I can't see where else you are going.
    I don't really think that handedness counts as an instinct.

    instinct noun (Concise Encyclopedia)
    Involuntary response by an animal, resulting in a predictable and relatively fixed behaviour pattern. Instinctive behaviour is an inherited mechanism that serves to promote the survival of an animal or species. It is most apparent in fighting and sexual activity. The simplest form is the reflex. All animals have instinct, but, in general, the higher the animal form, the more flexible the behaviour. Among mammals, learned behaviour often prevails over instinctive behaviour.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    It is actually not rare. It is only rare in humans because it is a social taboo.
    The way animals engage in homosexuality is more akin to prison rape than modern Western society's conception of the phenomena.

    It is a way of establishing dominance and releasing sexual energy when females are either scarce or not in season for mating. It is very rarely an exclusivistic preference.

    Even then, it's hardly as "common" as you are making out here in the first place.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 07-15-14 at 10:41 PM.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    And if sex didn't feel good but we wanted the species to survive we would still do it...

    We don't have sex to have children, we have sex to feel good.
    We don't eat to taste yummy food, we eat to remain alive.
    There is an instinctual drive to reproduce. Sex feels good for a reason, so that we will reproduce.

    Social Basis of Human Sexual Behavior

    Kind of a long snippet

    Humans, like many other terrestrial life forms, reproduce sexually. We, like all other sexual creatures, are subject to instinctive sexual desire triggered by appropriate criteria.

    However, humans are unique in two ways. The first I mentioned in the discussion in Chapter Two Reproduction -- their anatomy has made sex more difficult.

    It's the second unique thing about humans that makes their reproductive life unusual: humans can think. Thus, the criteria for desire and selection are greatly complicated. People apply not only physical, but societal, cultural and economic criteria to desire and selection.

    The evolution of the human body and mind has resulted in an incredibly complex psychophysiology. This sets humans apart from how all other animals approach reproduction. Males compete for breeding rights, females select the best available male. Many female mammals come into heat, a limited period when she is impregnable. Before and during this period, physiological changes occur that are detectable by the male. She becomes the most desirable female around, and she wants sex. The males line up for her, compete for her, and she selects and mates with the best. When a mare comes into heat, she mates with the alpha stallion (the one that wins the mating battles). She doesn't think about it, she doesn't examine his physique or bank account; if he is the alpha stallion, he is the one with which to mate, since he has proven himself superior to other males. If she doesn't wish to mate with him, she simply walks away.

    For other animals, instead of walking away, the female expresses her lack of desire by swatting the male. For example, a lioness, well equipped with weapons and close to the same size, can discourage any male by beating the hell out of him. He, having other females in his harem, shrugs his figurative shoulders and goes elsewhere.

    Such is not the case for a human. Men rarely battle each other for breeding rights. Women don't come into heat: they can mate at any time, she can get pregnant any month, deliver any day. Women don't automatically mate with a man because he won a fight. However, people still apply criteria in selecting a mate, and those criteria are gender-linked.

    Male Criteria

    The human male has a drive to impregnate as many females as possible, to create as many offspring with his genes as possible. (Ehrlichman & Eichenstein, 1992) Thus, he applies criteria typical for a male animal. He looks for women who are impregnable: those who are old enough to be past puberty, but young enough to care for children for at least several years. He looks for healthy (i.e., clear, smooth skin, "bright" eyes, good conformation of body and limbs, etc.) women, so they can carry the fetus to term, deliver it, and care for it after birth. Beyond that, he doesn't really care. She doesn't have to be intelligent, talented, socially aware, or in any other way have a brain. In fact, the dumber she is the easier it would be for him to meet her criteria for desirability since they are less likely to be extensive.

    Thus, men have minimal criteria for sexual desire; basically, they are concerned with a woman's anatomy -- as long as a woman looks young enough and healthy, she is desirable. They also consider her beautiful, since to a male beautiful and desirable are virtually synonymous.

    What is considered healthy-looking has varied over the years and centuries, and from culture to culture. In periods when there were food shortages, a woman that is now considered obese was thought attractive since her appearance clearly showed she had ample reserves. Other changes such as cosmetics to produce a healthy appearance, costumes that exaggerated the hips and thus gave an impression of an excellent child-bearing structure, etc., have increased men's perception of a woman's desirability as a sexual partner. Of course, few men consciously relate certain features with health, and thus that is why they find them attractive. They simply find women with such features sexually attractive, and that's enough without analyzing why.

    Many characteristics are deemed attractive by the culture. That is, they are learned. The human male has a mind as well, and is taught much of the way he is supposed to regard the world. This includes what the female features are that he should consider attractive (i.e., sexually desirable), including non-physical as well as physical attributes. Such non-physical attributes include a woman's mind, accomplishments, and prospects.

    Nonetheless, although his culture and society may tell him that he should consider more than anatomy, "people are likely to express approval for socially approved characteristics rather than for what actually attracts them." (Daly, 1983, p. 304) Deep down inside he still howls at the moon when a woman meeting his physical criteria walks by. For a man, thinking reduces sexual desire ("think about baseball").

    This does not mean that the human male is a walking hormone. He, like the female, is a member of the human race, and thus is also aware of human society, its constraints and demands.

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