View Poll Results: Is homosexuality "normak" and "natural"?

Voters
144. You may not vote on this poll
  • Homosexuality is normal

    68 47.22%
  • Homosexuality is not normal

    46 31.94%
  • Homosexuality is natural

    92 63.89%
  • Homosexuality is not natural

    19 13.19%
  • Other/unsure

    12 8.33%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

  1. #291
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Who said it was? The point is if we were all gay, we would die out. We have to reproduce to survive. I mean, really, this is just common sense. I know you want to make gay normal and have your own ideas, but they just aren't feasible in reality.
    I understand your point about reproduction, and it's true, obviously. We need to reproduce and that drive is innate, part of our DNA.

    It's why I answered "don't know" on the OP poll. They aren't the right questions, IMO. Normal isn't a useful way to characterize human sexual orientation. It's common, present in all cultures and for all of recorded history at least, even in societies where being gay and getting caught brings a death sentence.

    The relevant question to me is whether or not being gay is a choice, or whether it's determined by factors outside the control of the person, and I don't think there is any doubt (for all purposes that matter) that our sexual orientation is NOT a choice.

    The second question is whether a person can change their sexual orientation. And there is simply no evidence they can.

    Obviously in a population of hundreds of millions in the U.S., billions worldwide, there could be rare exceptions. But these exceedingly rare exceptionsaren't useful to consider for purposes of decision making. So the only useful assumption is that no one chooses their orientation, and when that orientation is set, it can't be changed. Enough societal pressure, or religious pressure, can change behavior, but not orientation. So if you find out your cousin is gay, assume he's always been gay and nothing anyone can do will change it. If you're a woman, and meet a guy who says he used to be gay, assume he is still gay, will never change, and act accordingly. If you want to criminalize gay behavior, and justify it because you believe it's a choice, and offenders can simply choose to be straight, you're wrong, and will make criminals out of people who had no role in their being gay.

  2. #292
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Well, I'm not really understanding how this would work. They think they can create eggs and a uterus? Interesting, but it sounds like it might be a long ways off. We should certainly investigate the use of stem cells to cure disease first, before experimenting with this kind of stuff.

  3. #293
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    All that matters is does homosexuality cause harm and that's a question that has long since been answered.
    How did you come to that conclusion? The question asked in this thread was about normality not safety. For example answer these two statements with a true or false:

    Normally people chose to engage in sexual behavior with people of the opposite gender. True or False
    Normally people chose to engage in sexual behavior with people of the same gender. True or False

    If you answer true to both you are lying. One is normal. The other is less common. It would be up to do you do decipher which one it is. In my opinion being left-handed is not normal. That's not the same as good or bad. That is not the same as safe or harmful. This thread asks about normality. I guess this is all about arguing the definition of normal and has nothing to do with homosexuality whatsoever. That happens a lot in controversial topics.

    You are disrespecting the poster by rebelling against his line of questioning. That's not nice of you. That's pretty mean.

  4. #294
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I understand your point about reproduction, and it's true, obviously. We need to reproduce and that drive is innate, part of our DNA.

    It's why I answered "don't know" on the OP poll. They aren't the right questions, IMO. Normal isn't a useful way to characterize human sexual orientation. It's common, present in all cultures and for all of recorded history at least, even in societies where being gay and getting caught brings a death sentence.

    The relevant question to me is whether or not being gay is a choice, or whether it's determined by factors outside the control of the person, and I don't think there is any doubt (for all purposes that matter) that our sexual orientation is NOT a choice.

    The second question is whether a person can change their sexual orientation. And there is simply no evidence they can.

    Obviously in a population of hundreds of millions in the U.S., billions worldwide, there could be rare exceptions. But these exceedingly rare exceptionsaren't useful to consider for purposes of decision making. So the only useful assumption is that no one chooses their orientation, and when that orientation is set, it can't be changed. Enough societal pressure, or religious pressure, can change behavior, but not orientation. So if you find out your cousin is gay, assume he's always been gay and nothing anyone can do will change it. If you're a woman, and meet a guy who says he used to be gay, assume he is still gay, will never change, and act accordingly. If you want to criminalize gay behavior, and justify it because you believe it's a choice, and offenders can simply choose to be straight, you're wrong, and will make criminals out of people who had no role in their being gay.
    I have nothing against gay people, and I don't know what causes a person to be gay. I just don't think it's necessarily "normal" is all. I think it's normal for us to be attracted to the opposite sex. I don't think that it hurts anything for these people to be gay though. I don't think there are enough or ever have been enough of them to affect the population one way or the other.

  5. #295
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    You are looking at this in way too simple terms!
    I am differentiating, and thus deconstructing the issue, thereby, yes, making it more simplified. This is, yes, an educated manner of thinking too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  6. #296
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I am differentiating, and thus deconstructing the issue, thereby, yes, making it more simplified. This is, yes, an educated manner of thinking too.
    I don't think so.

  7. #297
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    Actually, technology is developing at such a rate that homosexual reproduction will be possible in just a few short years.
    Artificially. A woman can not ejaculate sperm into another woman and a man can not carry a child since he has no womb. Those links only confirm that it might be possible in the future as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  8. #298
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I don't think so.
    That is abundantly clear... but it is fairly clear that this is what I have done. Gath sees it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  9. #299
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    That is abundantly clear... but it is fairly clear that this is what I have done. Gath sees it.
    You really haven't done too much of anything, hate to break it to you. You are just trying to simplify a complicated issue.

  10. #300
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    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    This is not the norm. Most people who harm their children are suffering from mental illness of some kind. Also, NO humans are perfect. None of these things negate the basic underlying instinct to reproduce. I cannot even believe people would argue about this.
    What I can't believe is your total ****ing blatant refusal to accept that people have sex to have an organism. I was married for ten years and had sex thousands of times. Only for a few months two different times did we actually want to reproduce. NONE of the other times was that even remotely wanted. You brought up the want. Now you ignore it.

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    What they're ignoring is that we also have a biological drive to survive personally, and so mothers have been known to kill their own offspring. Humans have demonstrated all kinds of cruelty to their own children, and if "good of the species" could explain all of our actions, well murder, war, and genocide wouldn't exist now would it.
    Agreed. I have pointed all this out and it has been conveniently ignored.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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