View Poll Results: Is homosexuality "normak" and "natural"?

Voters
144. You may not vote on this poll
  • Homosexuality is normal

    68 47.22%
  • Homosexuality is not normal

    46 31.94%
  • Homosexuality is natural

    92 63.89%
  • Homosexuality is not natural

    19 13.19%
  • Other/unsure

    12 8.33%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 28 of 58 FirstFirst ... 18262728293038 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 280 of 574

Thread: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

  1. #271
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Charleston, South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-02-16 @ 01:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    28,659

    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    What they're ignoring is that we also have a biological drive to survive personally, and so mothers have been known to kill their own offspring. Humans have demonstrated all kinds of cruelty to their own children, and if "good of the species" could explain all of our actions, well murder, war, and genocide wouldn't exist now would it.
    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Look, there's also a human instinct to personally survive and in times thru human history when food was scarce or the kid was deformed and in a war obsessed culture, they would often be left to die or even used as food themselves. Anthropologists like Birdsell calculate that at least 15% were killed (and 50% of females) until agriculture changed. There's even been cultures that sacrificed newborns to their gods, hardly a necessity. Infanticide has gone on forever mostly because babies aren't easy to care for.

    The instinct to reproduce, if you're going to argue its sole purpose is to propagate the species, is what's imperfect and varies and in conflict with other instincts. It is not like the instinct to breath, else people and animals would be screwing at every opportunity.
    In desperate circumstances, yes. It has been known to happen.

    It actually makes a certain amount of sense from a biological and evolutionary perspective. A child cannot survive without it's parent, and a living parent can always produce more children in the future.

    That being said, however, modern circumstances are rarely ever this dire.

  2. #272
    Sage


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    18,262

    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    I voted "not normak". Statistically, this can be verified. Obviously, it's perfectly natural for homosexuals. For them to be otherwise would be unnatural.

  3. #273
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Our environment has changed dramatically. We, however, have not.

    At the end of the day, we're still the same cavemen we ever were. That's kind of exactly the problem here.

    Our instincts don't know how to effectively deal with the modern world, and it changes far too quickly for our species to adapt.



    To the contrary, I'd argue that human nature is essentially static, and that there's nothing intrinsically "new" about how we view the world today versus the past.

    All the old staples of human, and even primate, civilization - hierarchy, gender roles, tribal identity, territoriality, war, profit motive, sex drive, and etca - are all still in place in terms of basic principle. They have simply adapted on a superficial basis to meet the needs of our modern environment.

    Frankly, it wouldn't appear that they have even done so in a particularly efficient or productive manner anyway. Modern society is rife with problems, largely stemming from the fact that our instinctual means of addressing certain circumstances are struggling to keep pace with how the world has changed.

    The Japanese and Europeans, for instance, are probably having more sex now than they ever have. However, they are also presently well on their way to extinction either way regardless, simply because human instinct has no way of accounting for the impact artificial inventions like the pill have had upon our fertility.

    Trying to argue that fundamentally "unnatural" or "counter-instinctual" circumstances can be overcome through "willpower" or "re-education" alone is exactly the same trap the Marxists fell into a century ago. I'm sorry, but it didn't work any better for them in that era than it is going to work for us today. Human beings simply don't work like that.

    The only method by which you are going to achieve the results you are advocating here is by fundamentally changing humanity, and human nature, itself through direct, and physical means. Frankly, that opens an entirely new kind of "Pandora's Box" in and of itself.
    Some aspects of human nature may be slower to change than other aspects. Some things like the need to eat may never change though. Emotionally though, we have changed even in recent times. For example, conservative instincts and outlook can be pretty much traced back to the recent innovation of agriculture and the need for tribal systems. In general, that outlook matches closed tribal societies very closely with things like reverence for tradition, strong ingroup/outgroup dynamics, etc. This didn't really come about until the advent of agriculture. Your own outlook is a fairly recent innovation and does not easily trace back as an adaption to "cave man" life. (I think the liberal mindset traces fairly well back to hunter-gatherer, with its reverence for nature, holistic approaches to life, etc)

    Also, those "problems" of modern society have been decreasing lately, there is less war, poverty, incarceration, and other general suffering than at any point in history on a per capita basis. Far from having issues adapting to modern culture, we are more successful than we ever were. As far as declining birth rates, thats not a real issue since the human population is steadily increasing.

    While you are partially right, there is a range of what humanity can accept within a society, you are wrong in that it is static as I have shown. The human population is ever moving towards collectivist tendancies, even the US and this is likely an adaption to our large population that you fear is declining.

  4. #274
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:26 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    21,751

    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    I dunno, I knew the guy for years and there was no indication he ever was gay, we were always out going hitting on girls back in the day.
    Nothing at all unusual about that. I knew my brother for 28 years, lived with him for about 17 of them, and summers in college, and didn't know. Same thing with two roommates in college.

    Perhaps he may have turned bisexual or something but I believe that someone can change their sexual orientation.
    It's possible someone CAN, but there is no evidence that more than a tiny sliver of the population DO change their orientation, and this is true even of the most highly motivated individuals who try to become straight through conversion therapy (or as I call them, reeducation camps).

    Edit to say I would have passed on commenting on that except the 'gay is a choice' thing is an easy out for bigots. I've seen NO indication that's how you're using the belief, but if one wants to justify any manner of discrimination, then simply stating that it's a choice like taking heroin is the way to do it. Don't like laws against SSM? Fine, just 'choose' to be straight and marry a woman. No problem! Except in real life that's NOT an option for the overwhelming majority of homosexuals. If it was a realistic option, gay reparative therapy would have a nearly 100% success rate instead of the roughly 0% success rate it has in real life on real people who are, by definition, HIGHLY motivated to change their orientation.
    Last edited by JasperL; 07-15-14 at 02:07 PM.

  5. #275
    Guru
    Zinthaniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    09-19-17 @ 10:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,705

    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    No one changes their sexuality. Many people who come out as gay shock those closest to them. The pressure to appear straight, the inner turmoil with rejecting your own sexuality, the stigma, the hate - can motivate anyone who is gay or bisexual to appear to all eyes as completely heterosexual. Thinking that someone was always heterosexual does not mean that they wear. Sexuality is an abstract concept that we don't even fully understand. The notion that every orientation has a distinct look and guideline that it adheres to is ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

  6. #276
    Why so un**great?
    DifferentDrummr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Facepalm Beach
    Last Seen
    06-04-17 @ 04:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,818
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Thats a good point. I think the modern day concept of sexual orientation isnt completely accurate- the ancient world didnt have any such distinctions (in fact the Romans had a completely different view on what sex and manliness meant). Pigeonholing somebody as gay or straight or whatever doesnt work all the time. Anectdotal: I was friends with a guy for many years and he was a devoted family man with three kids and a churchgoer, I recently called up his wife because we lost touch since I moved overseas and his wife now tells me he turned gay and they divorced. Wow.
    There's quite a bit of scientific evidence that most people have varying degrees of homosexual urges. We just happen to live in a culture that's historically been so anti-gay that most of us either forget about or even suppress those urges as we grow up. (Not all cultures in the history of humanity have been like this, however.)
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

  7. #277
    Maquis Admiral
    maquiscat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,963

    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    No one changes their sexuality. Many people who come out as gay shock those closest to them. The pressure to appear straight, the inner turmoil with rejecting your own sexuality, the stigma, the hate - can motivate anyone who is gay or bisexual to appear to all eyes as completely heterosexual. Thinking that someone was always heterosexual does not mean that they wear. Sexuality is an abstract concept that we don't even fully understand. The notion that every orientation has a distinct look and guideline that it adheres to is ridiculous.
    I'm going to disagree with the bold, but I do highly agree with the last sentence. I have known people whose orientation seems to be shifting and they are as surprised about it as anyone else. These aren't people who have said that they've been hiding their true sexuality and can't hide any more. They are people who have gone to date thinking that they are straight (and in one case gay) and only recently have been having attractions to their same gender (opposite for that one). Only one though has noted a decline in attraction for their "normal" gender preference, so far. Now this isn't an argument for "choice" in orientation. But it is one against orientation doesn't change. If you want to throw an "usually" into that sentence then there might be more accuracy.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

  8. #278
    Educator straykatz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    752

    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Being homosexual is normal/natrual to a homosexual just the same as being hetrosexual is normal/natural for a hetrosexual.

  9. #279
    Guru
    Zinthaniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    09-19-17 @ 10:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,705

    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    I'm going to disagree with the bold, but I do highly agree with the last sentence. I have known people whose orientation seems to be shifting and they are as surprised about it as anyone else. These aren't people who have said that they've been hiding their true sexuality and can't hide any more. They are people who have gone to date thinking that they are straight (and in one case gay) and only recently have been having attractions to their same gender (opposite for that one). Only one though has noted a decline in attraction for their "normal" gender preference, so far. Now this isn't an argument for "choice" in orientation. But it is one against orientation doesn't change. If you want to throw an "usually" into that sentence then there might be more accuracy.
    Let me clarify what I meant. Sexuality is not a light switch. It is not possible to consciously change your sexuality. Someone who does not find men attractive or who has zero inclination to have sex with them can not just sit up one day and go " you know what starting today, I'm homosexual" and then live the rest of their life with real attraction for their own gender. I agree that sexuality is fluid and can change, but the notion that the change is conscious I disagree with.

    P.s. I see that you clarified that in your post as well. Cheers.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

  10. #280
    Maquis Admiral
    maquiscat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,963

    Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    Let me clarify what I meant. Sexuality is not a light switch. It is not possible to consciously change your sexuality. Someone who does not find men attractive or who has zero inclination to have sex with them can not just sit up one day and go " you know what starting today, I'm homosexual" and then live the rest of their life with real attraction for their own gender. I agree that sexuality is fluid and can change, but the notion that the change is conscious I disagree with.

    P.s. I see that you clarified that in your post as well. Cheers.
    I shall have to disagree with you on this, but will stipulate that such would be a relatively rare occasion. I don't hold that orientation has only one cause or another. Some will be by genetics, others by environment, still others due to oddities such as chimerism and then the very few who can actually choose. For the majority it is something outside at least the conscious control of the individual. But I will never say that there are not those who can choose. Some have claimed so and there simply is no evidence to nay say their claim.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

Page 28 of 58 FirstFirst ... 18262728293038 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •