View Poll Results: Are Open-Borders Ever Viable?

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  • Yes, after welfare is fixed.

    1 3.13%
  • Yes, but more than welfare needs to be fixed

    2 6.25%
  • No

    24 75.00%
  • Other

    5 15.63%
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Thread: Are Open-Borders Ever Viable?

  1. #31
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    Re: Are Open-Borders Ever Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Is that a serious question?
    The United States does not have open borders,
    yet people land in the United States undocumented all the time, same as the colonists. The fact that people manage to land somewhere without the permission of the existing residents does not mean the landing is permissible. That is complete nonsense.



    Open or closed many thousands of undocumented aliens are crossing the USA's borders every year.

  2. #32
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    Re: Are Open-Borders Ever Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Open or closed many thousands of undocumented aliens are crossing the USA's borders every year.
    Correct. Do you have a point relative to mine? Why are you even quoting me?
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  3. #33
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    Re: Are Open-Borders Ever Viable?

    The countries in the European Union pretty well have open borders with the citizens moving effortlessly from country to country for work or pleasure. But they have a situation much different than we do with the various countries enjoying a kind of economic and cultural parity with all the others, sharing cultural similarities including disease control, hygiene, laws etc. But they don't provide welfare to each other's citizens and you just don't move from one country to another and go to work without going through due process to get proper permits etc. Also non-EU citizens are required to have much more regulation than those who live within the EU.

    Canada and the USA could probably pull that off. But Mexico is very different from the USA and Canada--there is far more abject poverty, far more criminal element, and government authorities that are widely regarded as corrupt and self serving. And our system of government does not allow us to deny welfare or other benefits to anybody and we would take the whole brunt of opportunistic citizens from other countries while we ourselves would get stuck with the bill and virtually no benefits.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  4. #34
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    Re: Are Open-Borders Ever Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    The countries in the European Union pretty well have open borders with the citizens moving effortlessly from country to country for work or pleasure. But they have a situation much different than we do with the various countries enjoying a kind of economic and cultural parity with all the others, sharing cultural similarities including disease control, hygiene, laws etc. But they don't provide welfare to each other's citizens and you just don't move from one country to another and go to work without going through due process to get proper permits etc. Also non-EU citizens are required to have much more regulation than those who live within the EU.

    Canada and the USA could probably pull that off. But Mexico is very different from the USA and Canada--there is far more abject poverty, far more criminal element, and government authorities that are widely regarded as corrupt and self serving. And our system of government does not allow us to deny welfare or other benefits to anybody and we would take the whole brunt of opportunistic citizens from other countries while we ourselves would get stuck with the bill and virtually no benefits.
    The countries in the EU are not all economic equals. The differences between Eastern and Western Europe are quite stark, with economies sized from 7,000-2,700,000 euros. The GDP of Mexico is actually larger than Canada, and the GDP differences between Canada, Mexico, and the US are far less than many of the countries in the EU. With regards to per capita GDP, Mexico is 3 times less than the US. But many in the EU are the same when compared to the wealthiest member states. If you include Luxembourg, the differences are nearly double that of the US and Mexico.

    It would also be incorrect to say that the cultures in the EU are all similar. There are many different cultures, as different as the US and Mexico. Additionally, there are many different cultures across the United States already.

    Our welfare system does not grant all immigrants full benefits either. Only citizens get most welfare benefits, not even legal permanent residents.

    A system where immigrants from Mexico can live and work legally in the United States (but not become instant citizens) similar to the process in the EU would be a major improvement in our current immigration system, in my opinion.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  5. #35
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    Re: Are Open-Borders Ever Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    The countries in the EU are not all economic equals. The differences between Eastern and Western Europe are quite stark, with economies sized from 7,000-2,700,000 euros. The GDP of Mexico is actually larger than Canada, and the GDP differences between Canada, Mexico, and the US are far less than many of the countries in the EU. With regards to per capita GDP, Mexico is 3 times less than the US. But many in the EU are the same when compared to the wealthiest member states. If you include Luxembourg, the differences are nearly double that of the US and Mexico.

    It would also be incorrect to say that the cultures in the EU are all similar. There are many different cultures, as different as the US and Mexico. Additionally, there are many different cultures across the United States already.

    Our welfare system does not grant all immigrants full benefits either. Only citizens get most welfare benefits, not even legal permanent residents.

    A system where immigrants from Mexico can live and work legally in the United States (but not become instant citizens) similar to the process in the EU would be a major improvement in our current immigration system, in my opinion.
    You read concepts into my post that are much different to what I posted. Let's just agree we have hugely different perspectives and let it go at that, however, as it will hijack the thread to take each component point by point.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #36
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    Re: Are Open-Borders Ever Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    You read concepts into my post that are much different to what I posted. Let's just agree we have hugely different perspectives and let it go at that, however, as it will hijack the thread to take each component point by point.
    I hardly see how having a debate about open border policy is hijacking a thread about..open borders. I did not read anything into your post at all, which is why I imagine you did not offer one example of me doing so. If you want to avoid discussion, that is fine with me regardless.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  7. #37
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    Re: Are Open-Borders Ever Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    The American Indians (Natives.) had open borders.

    How did that work out for them?
    No they didn't. They didn't have clearly defined borders... as an opposing tribe member or white settler what it was like when they wandered onto a tribes land.
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  8. #38
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    Re: Are Open-Borders Ever Viable?

    Plenty of countries have open borders to those who follow the rules. As an American, I can visit over 150 countries with nothing more than a US passport and a return ticket. All because of negotiated agreements between the US and those countries. In none of those countries can I move without a visa.
    People in Dubai don't like the Flintstones but people in Abu Dhabi do

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