View Poll Results: Should convicted criminals be allowed to hold office?

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  • Yes, the people should be able to choose whomever they want.

    71 30.47%
  • Phfft! Not no, but hell no!

    107 45.92%
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    55 23.61%
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Thread: Should convicted criminals be allowed to hold office?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should convicted criminals be allowed to hold office?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    So you want to abolish the right to counsel, got it.
    Where did I say such a thing?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #42
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    Re: Should convicted criminals be allowed to hold office?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Where did I say such a thing?
    Post #39 (amongst others) where you stated that a court should not be able to order an attorney to represent an indigent client, thus removing the right to an attorney.

  3. #43
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    Re: Should convicted criminals be allowed to hold office?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Post #39 (amongst others) where you stated that a court should not be able to order an attorney to represent an indigent client, thus removing the right to an attorney.
    That post was not in response the 6th amendment.It was in response to post #38. "If the lawyer is court appointed they will lose their license if not be considered in contempt." The 6th amendment does not say the accused shall force someone to act as counsel for him or her, nor does not say the accused gets counsel of his or her choosing.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  4. #44
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    Re: Should convicted criminals be allowed to hold office?

    Only difference between a convicted criminal politician and a regular politician is on has been convicted of a crime the other hasn't been caught yet.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
    Winston Churchill



    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

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    Re: Should convicted criminals be allowed to hold office?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    That post was not in response the 6th amendment.It was in response to post #38. "If the lawyer is court appointed they will lose their license if not be considered in contempt." The 6th amendment does not say the accused shall force someone to act as counsel for him or her, nor does not say the accused gets counsel of his or her choosing.
    Actually the only way indigent defendants get lawyers is by court order.

    So yes someone has to be forced.

  6. #46
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    Re: Should convicted criminals be allowed to hold office?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Actually the only way indigent defendants get lawyers is by court order.

    So yes someone has to be forced.
    Where in the 6th amendment does it say you can force someone to be someone else's Counsel?

    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.[1]
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Should convicted criminals be allowed to hold office?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Where in the 6th amendment does it say you can force someone to be someone else's Counsel?

    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.[1]
    The last part of it.

  8. #48
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    Re: Should convicted criminals be allowed to hold office?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    The last part of it.
    I do not think you read that part right because its says you can have Counsel.It doesn't say you can force someone to be yours or someone else' Counsel.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Should convicted criminals be allowed to hold office?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I do not think you read that part right because its says you can have Counsel.It doesn't say you can force someone to be yours or someone else' Counsel.
    It ensures a right to counsel. Positive rights entail positive obligations, as is evident to anyone who understands what they are talking about.

  10. #50
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    Re: Should convicted criminals be allowed to hold office?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    It ensures a right to counsel.
    The 2nd amendment ensures me the right to gun.It does not force anyone to sell me a gun.The first amendment ensures me the right to peaceful assemble, not the right to force others to assemble with me.

    Positive rights entail positive obligations,
    What are negative rights?

    as is evident to anyone who understands what they are talking about.
    It says you have the right to counsel, not the right to force someone to be your counsel.Two different things.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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