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Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?


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pbrauer

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How could any nation survive an open border policy? The immigration would only end when the population ruined the country to the point where their own country is better. You don't see tons of Swiss people sneaking in do you?
 
Yes
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Yes, let anyone come to the US as they wish.

No, ask everyone that is coming across our border if they intend to kill us.

Other, when you come across sign up for Obamacare and Medicaid, we love you and want to take care of you. Come one and come all. We have yobs and medical and if no yobs we pay you to stay.
 
How could any nation survive an open border policy? The immigration would only end when the population ruined the country to the point where their own country is better. You don't see tons of Swiss people sneaking in do you?

Oh but we are a nation of wealth and care for others, we are the world's healthcare giver and provider. If our reach is not long enough to bring everyone into our country that needs our care then anyone that can get here on their own is welcome and will be treated with welcome arms. We are the worlds provider.
 
Eventually, yes. It's not really practical to immediately "open the gates," so to speak, so the best way to do it would be to gradually increase the amount of immigrants we allow into the country until an open border policy is reached. Ideally, we would not deny citizenship to anyone who is not a violent criminal. The U.S. is the land of opportunity and was built by immigration, so we should surround our immigration policy around those ideals.
 
Eventually, yes. It's not really practical to immediately "open the gates," so to speak, so the best way to do it would be to gradually increase the amount of immigrants we allow into the country until an open border policy is reached. Ideally, we would not deny citizenship to anyone who is not a violent criminal. The U.S. is the land of opportunity and was built by immigration, so we should surround our immigration policy around those ideals.

That seems like a practical compromise. I personally believe all countries should have open borders, making it as easy to move between countries as it is to move between states. Of course if only the US opens its borders without reciprocity from other countries that will likely cause issues.
 
That seems like a practical compromise. I personally believe all countries should have open borders, making it as easy to move between countries as it is to move between states. Of course if only the US opens its borders without reciprocity from other countries that will likely cause issues.

Agreed. Perhaps an international agreement would be wise for such a policy.

And I'm still relatively new here, but I can see that you're new as well. Welcome! :2wave:
 
Eventually, yes. It's not really practical to immediately "open the gates," so to speak, so the best way to do it would be to gradually increase the amount of immigrants we allow into the country until an open border policy is reached. Ideally, we would not deny citizenship to anyone who is not a violent criminal. The U.S. is the land of opportunity and was built by immigration, so we should surround our immigration policy around those ideals.

I'm genuinely curious how you believe the massive social state that the left tends to desire can possibly function with open borders. If boatloads of immigrants from third world countries arrive on American shores with no job opportunities and no job skills, how can we pay for the sustenance? What jobs will they work when we already have millions of unemployed Americans? Where will the money come from to support and provide for millions of immigrants?
 
I'm genuinely curious how you believe the massive social state that the left tends to desire can possibly function with open borders. If boatloads of immigrants from third world countries arrive on American shores with no job opportunities and no job skills, how can we pay for the sustenance? What jobs will they work when we already have millions of unemployed Americans? Where will the money come from to support and provide for millions of immigrants?

Well for starters, the immigrants themselves would pay taxes that would generate government revenue. I'm of the opinion that in order to solve the unemployment issue, permanent New Deal style public works programs should be created to create jobs for immigrants and native born citizens. We also need to cut spending in areas where it is currently bloated (cut military spending in half, end corporate welfare entirely, end the War on Drugs entirely and legalize soft drugs, with a low sin tax that will generate revenue, turn our healthcare system into a German style universal public option, which has shown to be cheaper than out current healthcare system, etc.) and implement a steeply progressive tax structure with high rates on the rich for income and inheritance, as well as the establishment of a net worth tax on wealth, as well as a raise in the corporate income tax and elimination of loopholes for upper incomes. These methods of diverting income from other areas to the social safety net as well as new methods of generating revenue would fund the social safety net for native born citizens and immigrants alike, which along with preservation of civil liberties, should be the government's main purpose, IMO.

I realize that the vast majority of this in incompatible with your ideology. :p
 
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I would think that a relatively free entry with appropriate selective screening and transparency would be a good idea. Demographics and the economy both require well educated people to strengthen the tax and social security base.
 
Eventually, yes. It's not really practical to immediately "open the gates," so to speak, so the best way to do it would be to gradually increase the amount of immigrants we allow into the country until an open border policy is reached. Ideally, we would not deny citizenship to anyone who is not a violent criminal. The U.S. is the land of opportunity and was built by immigration, so we should surround our immigration policy around those ideals.

I will be happy to do that when we have reciprocity with Mexico and central America. Then I will go to Mexico and start a business so that while they are turning America into Mexico I can turn Mexico into America.
 
Well for starters, the immigrants themselves would pay taxes that would generate government revenue. I'm of the opinion that in order to solve the unemployment issue, permanent New Deal style public works programs should be created to create jobs for immigrants and native born citizens. We also need to cut spending in areas where it is currently bloated (cut military spending in half, end corporate welfare entirely, end the War on Drugs entirely and legalize soft drugs, with a low sin tax that will generate revenue, turn our healthcare system into a German style universal public option, which has shown to be cheaper than out current healthcare system, etc.) and implement a steeply progressive tax structure with high rates on the rich for income and inheritance, as well as the establishment of a net worth tax on wealth, as well as a raise in the corporate income tax and elimination of loopholes for upper incomes. These methods of diverting income from other areas to the social safety net as well as new methods of generating revenue would fund the social safety net for native born citizens and immigrants alike, which along with preservation of civil liberties, should be the government's main purpose, IMO.

I realize that the vast majority of this in incompatible with your ideology. :p

No, what you don't realize is that the vast majority of this is incompatible with reality. What's important to note about the 'generous' German healthcare and welfare systems is that their immigration is extremely controlled and regulated. Their system can only work because there is a high number of workers as compared to non-workers, which is the exact opposite of what you'd have in an open immigration society.

Basically your entire premise is based on the concept that immigrants would start paying taxes, yet as I already pointed out, we have more unemployed Americans than jobs. What jobs are all of these millions of unemployed immigrants going to get? What about the immigrants that don't want to work and just want to come because a welfare check is more than they made in a year in their home countries? If you think taxing working Americans to give new deal style jobs to immigrants will go over with the American people you obviously are out of touch.

While I know your position comes from a place of compassion, it's completely unrealistic. There's a reason why every first world country in the world has rather strict immigration policies and none have open immigration. You can't simultaneously give away "free money" while opening your door to 5 billion poor people to take said free money.

The biggest issue with an open immigration policy is that by definition you're telling immigrants that they can come here and there is NOTHING we expect for them in return. Heaven forbid we make a few stipulations about the people we let in on the gravy train.
 
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I'm genuinely curious how you believe the massive social state that the left tends to desire can possibly function with open borders. If boatloads of immigrants from third world countries arrive on American shores with no job opportunities and no job skills, how can we pay for the sustenance? What jobs will they work when we already have millions of unemployed Americans? Where will the money come from to support and provide for millions of immigrants?

This is what cracks me up about socialists and other leftists.Do they think there is a money tree with a unlimited supply of cash or a magical job fairy with a unlimited supply of decent paying jobs?
 
People who are for open borders are typically against NAFTA. Go figure.
 
This is what cracks me up about socialists and other leftists.Do they think there is a money tree with a unlimited supply of cash or a magical job fairy with a unlimited supply of decent paying jobs?
Seriously, let's try to make a dream society where no one has to work and everyone gets free money, then, we'll invite billions of unskilled third worlders to enjoy it with us. It makes so much sense.

People who are for open borders are typically against NAFTA. Go figure.
That really is actually quite hilarious. "We must stop free trade so all these third world miscreants won't take our jobs! But let's invite them into our country to take them here, that's ok."
 
People who are for open borders are typically against NAFTA. Go figure.

I do not think these people understand that these things work against each other. I seen these type of people on MSNBC complaining about income inequality, outsourcing, republicans trying to stop unions, low wages and how we should help our poor while at the same time supporting amnesty. Have they asked themselves how are Americans supposed to make better wages if there are millions of other people ready at a moment's notice to take that American's job? Don't they realize that most of the people coming here have little to no money and therefore will cause welfare dollars to stretch? They hail Cesar Chavez as a hero for worker's rights. But even he was adamantly opposed to illegal immigration and unrestricted immigration and even went as far to stand on the border with other people to block people coming into the country illegally.
 
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Sounds nice on paper but would likely lead to America becoming a third world country. I say let's take in refugees, people marring Americans, people filling jobs where shortages exist and the educated. Once here, make learning English and other assimilation steps requirements to start the process of becoming a citizen.
 
No, what you don't realize is that the vast majority of this is incompatible with reality. What's important to note about the 'generous' German healthcare and welfare systems is that their immigration is extremely controlled and regulated. Their system can only work because there is a high number of workers as compared to non-workers, which is the exact opposite of what you'd have in an open immigration society.

Basically your entire premise is based on the concept that immigrants would start paying taxes, yet as I already pointed out, we have more unemployed Americans than jobs. What jobs are all of these millions of unemployed immigrants going to get? What about the immigrants that don't want to work and just want to come because a welfare check is more than they made in a year in their home countries? If you think taxing working Americans to give new deal style jobs to immigrants will go over with the American people you obviously are out of touch.

As I stated, there needs to be jobs program making it as easy as possible to get a public works job, regardless of where they were born. The notion that only immigrants are benefiting from this is not true. Also, I don't support any tax hikes on the working class. The ones I've proposed are increased tax rates mostly on the top 10%. But you are correct if you're referring to how the upper class is essentially in control of our elections. A welfare system should be designed so that it can lift one out of poverty in addition to a job. The poor aren't going to sit on their benefits and not find a job unless they can't find one.

While I know your position comes from a place of compassion, it's completely unrealistic. There's a reason why every first world country in the world has rather strict immigration policies and none have open immigration. You can't simultaneously give away "free money" while opening your door to 5 billion poor people to take said free money.

The biggest issue with an open immigration policy is that by definition you're telling immigrants that they can come here and there is NOTHING we expect for them in return. Heaven forbid we make a few stipulations about the people we let in on the gravy train.

You're exaggerating what I stated. I want a gradualist approach to immigration, meaning we don't immediately open the gates to millions of people. What I would like to do is to gradually accept the amount of people we accept per year, so that our nation can adjust to the increasing number of immigrants as opposed to having to deal with multitudes of them all at once, so that we are eventually at an open border policy when we can handle it.
 
As I stated, there needs to be jobs program making it as easy as possible to get a public works job, regardless of where they were born. The notion that only immigrants are benefiting from this is not true. Also, I don't support any tax hikes on the working class. .

Where is this money going to come from for public works for all these poor people who are going to flood into this once you open the border.When you tell people that our borders are open they are going to come from everywher

The ones I've proposed are increased tax rates mostly on the top 10%. But you are correct if you're referring to how the upper class is essentially in control of our elections. A welfare system should be designed so that it can lift one out of poverty in addition to a job. The poor aren't going to sit on their benefits and not find a job unless they can't find one
.

So your solution to prop up all these low to moderately skilled poor people from all over the word is to prop them up on the backs of the rich in this country? What happens when due to the amount of poor people who flooded into this country that you are now the top 10% even though your pay hasn't changed?

You're exaggerating what I stated. I want a gradualist approach to immigration, meaning we don't immediately open the gates to millions of people. What I would like to do is to gradually accept the amount of people we accept per year, so that our nation can adjust to the increasing number of immigrants as opposed to having to deal with multitudes of them all at once, so that we are eventually at an open border policy when we can handle it

You do know that half to three quarters of a million people each year get naturalized citizenship? I am pretty sure that we allow more people than that legally in each year. So are you going to one year suggest that one million people should be allowed in and then the next two million and so on?
 
Every country should. It's one of those 'inalienable rights' us humans are endowed with by our creator, if you catch my drift, to travel and live wherever we wish on this planet. No arbitrarily established and phoney ass government gets to interfere with that.
 
Other:

I think we should have an open Barnes & Nobles policy.
 
Where's the "Oh, HELL no!" option?
 
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