View Poll Results: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

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  • Yes

    7 11.67%
  • No

    49 81.67%
  • Other

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I'm going to expand on this a bit, because I can see people foaming at the mouth and shaking fists at your "intolerance".

    I've lived in California most of my life. Went to school with farmworkers' children, played with them, had crushes on them, learned to love the culture, food and music of Mexico (primarily Mexicans at that time, although now Central Americans are, I believe, a large percentage of illegal immigrants). There was never a question of bigotry, of intolerance, and the only high school rivalries I ever saw were between high schools competing on the football field.

    Fast forward to the Reagan years. Illegal immigration had become a problem. The 405 Fwy. outside of San Diego had huge, blinking signs... "Warning!! Watch for Pedestrians on the Freeway!!" There were 2 million illegals in the US at that time, and Reagan wanted to give amnesty, promising to strengthen the border to stave off the flood. I was, "Oh hell yes!! Amnesty all the way!" I thought it a swell idea... until the words "amnesty" reached Mexico and that 2 million immigrants swelled to 5 million almost overnight.

    California communities suddenly saw huge groups of migrants gathering outside shopping malls, parking lots, schools. Most were just looking for work, but it was unnerving when parents sent their kids past groups of 30-40 or more men just to get to school. Construction jobs dried up, because migrants did the work cheaper. Restaurant jobs, landscaping, service industry, janitorial services, retail, just about every entry level job in the community was filled by migrants, leaving the kids of citizens no place to find that first job, that first apprenticeship, that introduction into earning a living. Exploitation of immigrants was rampant; no benefits, cash-under-the-table below minimum wages. People moved away, seeking work. Communities withered and decayed, as home ownership suburbs turned into basically slums with distant landlords.

    Fast forward to today. Now we have over 20 million undocumented migrants (forget the 12 million that they've been using for the past 20 years, at the same time they confess that the number is growing by an average of 1.5 million per year). Over 70 hospitals in California alone have closed down directly attributed to the exorbitant expense of caring for undocumented pregnant women and their babies. Welfare costs have skyrocketed, because migrants now come into the country with maps and directions on how to sign up for ADC benefits, and know in advance that California welfare & medical facilities are not allowed to ascertain legal status before handing over benefits and services.

    Identity theft is unprecedented, with millions of stolen social security and green card numbers used by undocumented workers, which totally screws the people who legitimately own those stolen numbers, and of course no income tax is ever paid by those holding stolen numbers. These cards, forged birth records, etc., are sold by the tens of thousands out of garages and car trunks, brazenly parked in the open. When those operations were closed down by authorities in LA, there was a massive protest at city hall some years back demanding that the dealers of stolen SS/green cards and other forged documents be released and allowed to continue providing this "necessary service" to those who needed it... i.e., illegal immigrants.

    This has become an absolute crisis in California... an economic crisis, an exploitation crisis, a humanitarian crisis, a medical care crisis and a crisis for citizens whose lives have been irreparably damaged by sometimes dozens of illegals using their social security/green card numbers.

    I realize it's simple for those around the country who have never been personally affected by illegal immigration to shrug and say, "So what? They are nice people who just want to work. What's the problem?"

    The problem is that every other country on the planet has a right to control immigration based upon that country's ability to absorb a population, and to select a population that can contribute to society without first draining it. The USA is being drained, drained by nice people, good people, people who just want a better life, but people who nevertheless the USA cannot economically absorb without limit.

    I know this is long, so I'll stop. But what I've written about barely scratches the surface of this terribly complex situation, a situation that a half-dozen administrations have caused because of political pressure for cheap labor by the corporate wallets that get them elected, and voter coercion by ever-increasing numbers of Hispanic groups.

    So hell no, the US should not have open borders, and the government should be forced to do what it is constitutionally charged to do... protect and secure those borders in accordance with US law.

    Though, I don't have near the personal experience with the border problem, I couldn't agree more with the philosophy of your judgment. It's simply not fair for our citizens to suffer the effects and displacement from illegal entry.

    This really shouldn't be near the problem or even the discussion it's become. Countries have borders and immigration processes for a reason. And both sides would be more stable if there was some sort of enforced situation.

    I'm not unsympathetic towards people less fortunate or trying to escape a life of poverty and violence. But it's not realistic or healthy for us to absorb and delve into all the world's problems.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    The U.S. should be one of the world's most difficult countries to immigrate to. It has plenty of people to sustain a successful economy.
    I agree. There are some countries in the world that will not even let non-citizens buy real estate. They make it difficult to live in their countries. We need to tweak the law that makes anyone born here automatically a citizen. People are abusing that law.
    "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice"---Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    I would actually not have a problem with a borderless planet and a single, representative world government, but I doubt it will happen any time in the foreseeable future.
    A borderless planet and single representitive world government will not be a good thing. It would put too much power in the hands of too few people. Remember that old saying about how power corrupts?
    "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice"---Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I'm going to expand on this a bit, because I can see people foaming at the mouth and shaking fists at your "intolerance".

    I've lived in California most of my life. Went to school with farmworkers' children, played with them, had crushes on them, learned to love the culture, food and music of Mexico (primarily Mexicans at that time, although now Central Americans are, I believe, a large percentage of illegal immigrants). There was never a question of bigotry, of intolerance, and the only high school rivalries I ever saw were between high schools competing on the football field.

    Fast forward to the Reagan years. Illegal immigration had become a problem. The 405 Fwy. outside of San Diego had huge, blinking signs... "Warning!! Watch for Pedestrians on the Freeway!!" There were 2 million illegals in the US at that time, and Reagan wanted to give amnesty, promising to strengthen the border to stave off the flood. I was, "Oh hell yes!! Amnesty all the way!" I thought it a swell idea... until the words "amnesty" reached Mexico and that 2 million immigrants swelled to 5 million almost overnight.

    California communities suddenly saw huge groups of migrants gathering outside shopping malls, parking lots, schools. Most were just looking for work, but it was unnerving when parents sent their kids past groups of 30-40 or more men just to get to school. Construction jobs dried up, because migrants did the work cheaper. Restaurant jobs, landscaping, service industry, janitorial services, retail, just about every entry level job in the community was filled by migrants, leaving the kids of citizens no place to find that first job, that first apprenticeship, that introduction into earning a living. Exploitation of immigrants was rampant; no benefits, cash-under-the-table below minimum wages. People moved away, seeking work. Communities withered and decayed, as home ownership suburbs turned into basically slums with distant landlords.

    Fast forward to today. Now we have over 20 million undocumented migrants (forget the 12 million that they've been using for the past 20 years, at the same time they confess that the number is growing by an average of 1.5 million per year). Over 70 hospitals in California alone have closed down directly attributed to the exorbitant expense of caring for undocumented pregnant women and their babies. Welfare costs have skyrocketed, because migrants now come into the country with maps and directions on how to sign up for ADC benefits, and know in advance that California welfare & medical facilities are not allowed to ascertain legal status before handing over benefits and services.

    Identity theft is unprecedented, with millions of stolen social security and green card numbers used by undocumented workers, which totally screws the people who legitimately own those stolen numbers, and of course no income tax is ever paid by those holding stolen numbers. These cards, forged birth records, etc., are sold by the tens of thousands out of garages and car trunks, brazenly parked in the open. When those operations were closed down by authorities in LA, there was a massive protest at city hall some years back demanding that the dealers of stolen SS/green cards and other forged documents be released and allowed to continue providing this "necessary service" to those who needed it... i.e., illegal immigrants.

    This has become an absolute crisis in California... an economic crisis, an exploitation crisis, a humanitarian crisis, a medical care crisis and a crisis for citizens whose lives have been irreparably damaged by sometimes dozens of illegals using their social security/green card numbers.

    I realize it's simple for those around the country who have never been personally affected by illegal immigration to shrug and say, "So what? They are nice people who just want to work. What's the problem?"

    The problem is that every other country on the planet has a right to control immigration based upon that country's ability to absorb a population, and to select a population that can contribute to society without first draining it. The USA is being drained, drained by nice people, good people, people who just want a better life, but people who nevertheless the USA cannot economically absorb without limit.

    I know this is long, so I'll stop. But what I've written about barely scratches the surface of this terribly complex situation, a situation that a half-dozen administrations have caused because of political pressure for cheap labor by the corporate wallets that get them elected, and voter coercion by ever-increasing numbers of Hispanic groups.

    So hell no, the US should not have open borders, and the government should be forced to do what it is constitutionally charged to do... protect and secure those borders in accordance with US law.
    Thank you for telling it like it is.
    "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice"---Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #55
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amanda1858 View Post
    A borderless planet and single representitive world government will not be a good thing. It would put too much power in the hands of too few people. Remember that old saying about how power corrupts?
    That would depend on the details of the government structure. Giving the individual nations semi-autonomous roles - like states in the U.S. - is one of many possibilities.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

  6. #56
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amanda1858 View Post
    A borderless planet and single representitive world government will not be a good thing. It would put too much power in the hands of too few people. Remember that old saying about how power corrupts?
    It seems a lot of countries want more and more land areas and blurred lines. I don't think there will be any, one national power, uniting the world under one flag, but I wouldn't be surprised if under the right circumstances of crisis a pack of national leaders try and form a group similar to the EU for the purpose of global control. It'll be like the combining of the Group of Eight (G8), United Nations and NATO, though more autonomous.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?
    i support controls, but i feel that our current policies are too restrictive. i'd prefer something closer to an Ellis Island model, where we would process and document new immigrants. our current "get in line and wait half your life for us to maybe possibly let you in (unless you'd like to pay a half million dollars to expedite the process)" model isn't working.

    after documentation, everyone goes into the Everify system, and every job from dishwasher to CEO requires Everify. the fines for non-compliance should be ridiculously enormous. if we did that, we would bring the underground labor economy into the light. employers would be much less likely to cheat if they knew that crushing fines were guaranteed. you subcontracted? oh, ok. that's too bad. you're fined anyway. this eliminates much of the draw for illegal labor.

    we also need to work with central America to help them make their economies suck less. this is fairly crucial. we should be concentrating on what's going on in the back yard more than what happening across the ocean, IMO.

    edit to add : i'm not happy about Obama's current increased level of deportation, especially but not limited to those kids.

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