View Poll Results: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

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    7 11.67%
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Thread: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I'm genuinely curious how you believe the massive social state that the left tends to desire can possibly function with open borders. If boatloads of immigrants from third world countries arrive on American shores with no job opportunities and no job skills, how can we pay for the sustenance? What jobs will they work when we already have millions of unemployed Americans? Where will the money come from to support and provide for millions of immigrants?
    Well for starters, the immigrants themselves would pay taxes that would generate government revenue. I'm of the opinion that in order to solve the unemployment issue, permanent New Deal style public works programs should be created to create jobs for immigrants and native born citizens. We also need to cut spending in areas where it is currently bloated (cut military spending in half, end corporate welfare entirely, end the War on Drugs entirely and legalize soft drugs, with a low sin tax that will generate revenue, turn our healthcare system into a German style universal public option, which has shown to be cheaper than out current healthcare system, etc.) and implement a steeply progressive tax structure with high rates on the rich for income and inheritance, as well as the establishment of a net worth tax on wealth, as well as a raise in the corporate income tax and elimination of loopholes for upper incomes. These methods of diverting income from other areas to the social safety net as well as new methods of generating revenue would fund the social safety net for native born citizens and immigrants alike, which along with preservation of civil liberties, should be the government's main purpose, IMO.

    I realize that the vast majority of this in incompatible with your ideology. :P
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
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    I would think that a relatively free entry with appropriate selective screening and transparency would be a good idea. Demographics and the economy both require well educated people to strengthen the tax and social security base.

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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    Eventually, yes. It's not really practical to immediately "open the gates," so to speak, so the best way to do it would be to gradually increase the amount of immigrants we allow into the country until an open border policy is reached. Ideally, we would not deny citizenship to anyone who is not a violent criminal. The U.S. is the land of opportunity and was built by immigration, so we should surround our immigration policy around those ideals.
    I will be happy to do that when we have reciprocity with Mexico and central America. Then I will go to Mexico and start a business so that while they are turning America into Mexico I can turn Mexico into America.

  4. #14
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    Well for starters, the immigrants themselves would pay taxes that would generate government revenue. I'm of the opinion that in order to solve the unemployment issue, permanent New Deal style public works programs should be created to create jobs for immigrants and native born citizens. We also need to cut spending in areas where it is currently bloated (cut military spending in half, end corporate welfare entirely, end the War on Drugs entirely and legalize soft drugs, with a low sin tax that will generate revenue, turn our healthcare system into a German style universal public option, which has shown to be cheaper than out current healthcare system, etc.) and implement a steeply progressive tax structure with high rates on the rich for income and inheritance, as well as the establishment of a net worth tax on wealth, as well as a raise in the corporate income tax and elimination of loopholes for upper incomes. These methods of diverting income from other areas to the social safety net as well as new methods of generating revenue would fund the social safety net for native born citizens and immigrants alike, which along with preservation of civil liberties, should be the government's main purpose, IMO.

    I realize that the vast majority of this in incompatible with your ideology. :P
    No, what you don't realize is that the vast majority of this is incompatible with reality. What's important to note about the 'generous' German healthcare and welfare systems is that their immigration is extremely controlled and regulated. Their system can only work because there is a high number of workers as compared to non-workers, which is the exact opposite of what you'd have in an open immigration society.

    Basically your entire premise is based on the concept that immigrants would start paying taxes, yet as I already pointed out, we have more unemployed Americans than jobs. What jobs are all of these millions of unemployed immigrants going to get? What about the immigrants that don't want to work and just want to come because a welfare check is more than they made in a year in their home countries? If you think taxing working Americans to give new deal style jobs to immigrants will go over with the American people you obviously are out of touch.

    While I know your position comes from a place of compassion, it's completely unrealistic. There's a reason why every first world country in the world has rather strict immigration policies and none have open immigration. You can't simultaneously give away "free money" while opening your door to 5 billion poor people to take said free money.

    The biggest issue with an open immigration policy is that by definition you're telling immigrants that they can come here and there is NOTHING we expect for them in return. Heaven forbid we make a few stipulations about the people we let in on the gravy train.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 07-07-14 at 06:44 AM.
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    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I'm genuinely curious how you believe the massive social state that the left tends to desire can possibly function with open borders. If boatloads of immigrants from third world countries arrive on American shores with no job opportunities and no job skills, how can we pay for the sustenance? What jobs will they work when we already have millions of unemployed Americans? Where will the money come from to support and provide for millions of immigrants?
    This is what cracks me up about socialists and other leftists.Do they think there is a money tree with a unlimited supply of cash or a magical job fairy with a unlimited supply of decent paying jobs?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    People who are for open borders are typically against NAFTA. Go figure.

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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    This is what cracks me up about socialists and other leftists.Do they think there is a money tree with a unlimited supply of cash or a magical job fairy with a unlimited supply of decent paying jobs?
    Seriously, let's try to make a dream society where no one has to work and everyone gets free money, then, we'll invite billions of unskilled third worlders to enjoy it with us. It makes so much sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    People who are for open borders are typically against NAFTA. Go figure.
    That really is actually quite hilarious. "We must stop free trade so all these third world miscreants won't take our jobs! But let's invite them into our country to take them here, that's ok."
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  8. #18
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    People who are for open borders are typically against NAFTA. Go figure.
    I do not think these people understand that these things work against each other. I seen these type of people on MSNBC complaining about income inequality, outsourcing, republicans trying to stop unions, low wages and how we should help our poor while at the same time supporting amnesty. Have they asked themselves how are Americans supposed to make better wages if there are millions of other people ready at a moment's notice to take that American's job? Don't they realize that most of the people coming here have little to no money and therefore will cause welfare dollars to stretch? They hail Cesar Chavez as a hero for worker's rights. But even he was adamantly opposed to illegal immigration and unrestricted immigration and even went as far to stand on the border with other people to block people coming into the country illegally.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
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    Sounds nice on paper but would likely lead to America becoming a third world country. I say let's take in refugees, people marring Americans, people filling jobs where shortages exist and the educated. Once here, make learning English and other assimilation steps requirements to start the process of becoming a citizen.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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    Re: Should The U.S. Have an Open Borders Policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    No, what you don't realize is that the vast majority of this is incompatible with reality. What's important to note about the 'generous' German healthcare and welfare systems is that their immigration is extremely controlled and regulated. Their system can only work because there is a high number of workers as compared to non-workers, which is the exact opposite of what you'd have in an open immigration society.

    Basically your entire premise is based on the concept that immigrants would start paying taxes, yet as I already pointed out, we have more unemployed Americans than jobs. What jobs are all of these millions of unemployed immigrants going to get? What about the immigrants that don't want to work and just want to come because a welfare check is more than they made in a year in their home countries? If you think taxing working Americans to give new deal style jobs to immigrants will go over with the American people you obviously are out of touch.
    As I stated, there needs to be jobs program making it as easy as possible to get a public works job, regardless of where they were born. The notion that only immigrants are benefiting from this is not true. Also, I don't support any tax hikes on the working class. The ones I've proposed are increased tax rates mostly on the top 10%. But you are correct if you're referring to how the upper class is essentially in control of our elections. A welfare system should be designed so that it can lift one out of poverty in addition to a job. The poor aren't going to sit on their benefits and not find a job unless they can't find one.

    While I know your position comes from a place of compassion, it's completely unrealistic. There's a reason why every first world country in the world has rather strict immigration policies and none have open immigration. You can't simultaneously give away "free money" while opening your door to 5 billion poor people to take said free money.

    The biggest issue with an open immigration policy is that by definition you're telling immigrants that they can come here and there is NOTHING we expect for them in return. Heaven forbid we make a few stipulations about the people we let in on the gravy train.
    You're exaggerating what I stated. I want a gradualist approach to immigration, meaning we don't immediately open the gates to millions of people. What I would like to do is to gradually accept the amount of people we accept per year, so that our nation can adjust to the increasing number of immigrants as opposed to having to deal with multitudes of them all at once, so that we are eventually at an open border policy when we can handle it.
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

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