View Poll Results: With regards to not in recess "recess" appointments...

Voters
15. You may not vote on this poll
  • Ignorant of Con Law and thus assumed it was constitutional?

    0 0%
  • Arrogant and Fringe on Con Law and thus firmly believed it constitutional

    2 13.33%
  • Oblivious to the constitutional implications and acted without thinking of it

    1 6.67%
  • Naively felt it had a reasonable chance of being constitutional, so gave it a shot

    1 6.67%
  • Realized likely unconstitutional, but gamble due to little fear of reprucussions

    8 53.33%
  • Realized almost certaintly unconstitutional, but did it anyways

    0 0%
  • Other

    3 20.00%
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Thread: Which is more likely regarding recess appointments

  1. #21
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    Re: Which is more likely regarding recess appointments

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Where is the option for no one being able to consistently pick how SCOTUS will rule?
    Come on Redress. I wasn't asking a question about something that was a 5/4 ruling, or even a 6-3 or 7-2 ruling.

    This was a UNANIMOUS ruling against the Presidents action. This was the likes of Alito and Ginsburg agreeing on a similar verdict. Of Thomas and Sotomayer both issuing the same vote. Of Scalia and Kagan both saying "Nope".

    In most cases I agree, it's a bit ridiculous to suggest you can consistently guess how the SCOTUS would rule. But this one was blatantly obvious, and that fact became even more crystal clear when they UNANIMOUSLY....judicially liberal and conservative...both said "no go".

    This is basic civics. The Senate sets the rules for how the senate acts internally and only they have the power to declare themselves on recess. Allowing the President to decide when Congress is in recess by fiat is clearly and obvious a violation of the checks and balances built into our system. This is so blatantly obvious that every single SCOTUS Justice ruled against that.

    To HONESTLY believe this action was constitutional, or stood even a REASONABLE chance of being upheld, one would either need to be utterly ignorant of constitutional law, so amazingly on the lunatic fringe of constitutional law that even Kagan and Sotomayer view your opinion as too liberal, or simply in denial.

    This is not simply doing something overturned by the course. This is doing something blatantly and obviously unconstitutional and having it called as such by EVERY SINGLE JUSTICE on the court. And, specifically, this is the President himself not doing this...not simply a portion of th executive branch which is often used as a means of distinction when the other 9-0 cases against this current administration (or past administrations) are pointed out.

    By the way, there is an option for that. The fourth one. And if you want to quibble on the notion of naivity being involved, I would love to see you put forth a compelling argument that ANYONE...specifically a constitutional scholar...should've had ANY hope what so ever that this action would've garnered 5 votes in support of it.

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    Re: Which is more likely regarding recess appointments

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    They will keep the nuclear option in place. Now that the "suing the President" has been unsheathed, bet on the Democrats using that sometime as well.
    Sure they will. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. In today's hyper-partisan age each side is looking for fresh ammo or ways to stick it to the other. The sad thing is a bit of give and take, a little compromise could have avoided all of this.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  3. #23
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    Re: Which is more likely regarding recess appointments

    I'm just spitballing, but perhaps he wanted this to come to a ruling so the next POTUS didn't try this same thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
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  4. #24
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    Re: Which is more likely regarding recess appointments

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I suspect he truly is disappointed he couldn't change the beast.
    With that I agree, I just think we part ways on how sincere he was in terms of the amount, and things, he wanted to change.

    The fact is "what's constitutional" is not set in stone. I don't need to remind you of the many times "what's constitutional" has changed in our country's history.
    Absolutely. But this wasn't a situation where there was a legitimate split, or even mild split, on the part of the court. This wasn't a situation where there's significant variation in terms of the scholarly community in regards to if the action was reasonable or not. This was a pretty blatant and clear cut situation regardless of ones judicial ideology, as evidenced by the 9-0 ruling against the the President. On the court you have arguably everything from staunchly to moderatetly liberal and conservative in terms of judicial ideology...and yet not a single one found the presiden'ts argument compelling. I'm sorry, but to me that doens't indicate a simple feeling that "what's constitutional" isn't set in stone, but rather a sign of either full recognition that his (and/or his advisors) views were not likely constitutional, a sign of poor research and forethought in not realizing it's unlikely to be viewed as such, or simply a fringe view of what the constitutional entails outside of even views of those on the court that are on his side in terms of judicial ideology.

    I think what troubles me more than anything is how power is being abused in Congress.
    I don't think it's something can be answered in some kind of across the board manner, because different things trouble me in different ways to different degrees. As it comes to the recess appointments; a branch of government utilizing a loophole, but doing so legitimately, bothers me less than a branch just utterly disregarding the constitution. That doesn't mean I'm a fan of the use of the loophole, but the bad actions of congress don't excuse or make the worse actions by the executive less problematic.

    At the end of the day, the President can only do what's allowed within the law...but Congress basically IS the law.
    Yes, that's the check and balance within our system. I know it can be frustrating to the executive, but that frustration doesn't give a free pass to encroach upon those checks and balances. Is congress going over board with thier check currently? Arguably yes. But the system is set up to allow for that; meaning the executive needs to find a way WITHIN THE SYSTEM to deal with the frustration it causes.

    I understand why it's worrisome for one man to try and skirt the very authority which is supposed to keep him in check. But, at the end of the day, Obama only did what he did because Congress wouldn't do what they should.
    I don't mind a legitimate skirt. Take for instance some of his executive actions. I have issues with some of them and feel that some violate the standards that have been set out in terms of determining if executive actions are constitutional or not. However, I recognize there's a legitimate question regarding the constitutionality of those things and that the scholarly and judicial community is likely split on those things...so I do not blame Obama for attepmting some of them, nor do I have a problem with Republicans threatening now to challenge some of them. It's reasonable to believe that the President honestly feels there is a constitutional argument to be made that is compelling that what he's doing is okay, and the fact it is such a significant question within the legal community backs that up.

    This was not such a case. This wasn't toeing the line or barely skirting the edges, this was doing a 40 yard dash over the line naked and saying "I'm going to keep running over on this side until you stop me".


    is stealing a loaf of bread to feed your starving family inexcusable?
    Its understandable...it's still inexecusable as it relates to the law. And that's taking into account an arguably life saving action, not one that's being undertaken because you're frustrated.

  5. #25
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    Re: Which is more likely regarding recess appointments

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    I'm just spitballing, but perhaps he wanted this to come to a ruling so the next POTUS didn't try this same thing?
    It's a possability, but it would still then leave me troubled with a President taking an unconstitutional action, and allowing said unconstitutional action to impact peoples lives for a time period (and then cause tax payer funds to rectify the issue as I am under the understanding that all those issues judged by those appointed individuals now must be relooked at), simply to set a precedence and make a point to handicapped a future president from something that they may not have even tried.

  6. #26
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    Re: Which is more likely regarding recess appointments

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    That's what he was doing
    So again, back to answer 4 at best. The constitutional law professor thought that this was at least more constitutional than not, if not definitely constitutional, but come to find out every single justice on the court unquestionably rejected his legal opinion, including the four judicially liberal justices on the court. Throwing into question the worth and or extremism of his constitutional opinion to at least some degree.

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    Re: Which is more likely regarding recess appointments

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    It's a possability, but it would still then leave me troubled with a President taking an unconstitutional action, and allowing said unconstitutional action to impact peoples lives for a time period (and then cause tax payer funds to rectify the issue as I am under the understanding that all those issues judged by those appointed individuals now must be relooked at), simply to set a precedence and make a point to handicapped a future president from something that they may not have even tried.
    What he did was ensure that future Congresses can play games with what "in session" means.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
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  8. #28
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    Re: Which is more likely regarding recess appointments

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Come on Redress. I wasn't asking a question about something that was a 5/4 ruling, or even a 6-3 or 7-2 ruling.

    This was a UNANIMOUS ruling against the Presidents action. This was the likes of Alito and Ginsburg agreeing on a similar verdict. Of Thomas and Sotomayer both issuing the same vote. Of Scalia and Kagan both saying "Nope".

    In most cases I agree, it's a bit ridiculous to suggest you can consistently guess how the SCOTUS would rule. But this one was blatantly obvious, and that fact became even more crystal clear when they UNANIMOUSLY....judicially liberal and conservative...both said "no go".

    This is basic civics. The Senate sets the rules for how the senate acts internally and only they have the power to declare themselves on recess. Allowing the President to decide when Congress is in recess by fiat is clearly and obvious a violation of the checks and balances built into our system. This is so blatantly obvious that every single SCOTUS Justice ruled against that.

    To HONESTLY believe this action was constitutional, or stood even a REASONABLE chance of being upheld, one would either need to be utterly ignorant of constitutional law, so amazingly on the lunatic fringe of constitutional law that even Kagan and Sotomayer view your opinion as too liberal, or simply in denial.

    This is not simply doing something overturned by the course. This is doing something blatantly and obviously unconstitutional and having it called as such by EVERY SINGLE JUSTICE on the court. And, specifically, this is the President himself not doing this...not simply a portion of th executive branch which is often used as a means of distinction when the other 9-0 cases against this current administration (or past administrations) are pointed out.

    By the way, there is an option for that. The fourth one. And if you want to quibble on the notion of naivity being involved, I would love to see you put forth a compelling argument that ANYONE...specifically a constitutional scholar...should've had ANY hope what so ever that this action would've garnered 5 votes in support of it.
    Ah, so you have not even read about what you are ****ing commenting on. Shame on you, you can do better than this. Here, let me help you by pointing you to where you should have started to save making this mistake: Court strikes down recess appointments: In Plain English : SCOTUSblog. Now let me quote:

    Here it is important to note that, although all nine Justices agreed that these particular recess appointments were invalid, there was not a lot of harmony on the Court in this case. Justice Antonin Scalia wrote a separate opinion that was joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito.
    So clear cut that the justices did not agree on anything beyond the outcome...

    Best to educate yourself before posting...
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
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  9. #29
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    Re: Which is more likely regarding recess appointments

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Ah, so you have not even read about what you are ****ing commenting on. Shame on you, you can do better than this. Here, let me help you by pointing you to where you should have started to save making this mistake: Court strikes down recess appointments: In Plain English : SCOTUSblog. Now let me quote:



    So clear cut that the justices did not agree on anything beyond the outcome...

    Best to educate yourself before posting...
    Thanks for posting the link. I hadn't really realized what exactly the court's ruling was either.

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    Re: Which is more likely regarding recess appointments

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Thanks for posting the link. I hadn't really realized what exactly the court's ruling was either.
    I strongly recommend going to SCOTUSBLOG after every big decision. Amazing resource, with good, balanced explanations and handy links to the actual rulings. The "In Plain English' column in particular is a favorite.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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