View Poll Results: Which Constitutional Amendments, if any, should be repealed?

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Thread: Which Constitutional Amendments, if any, should be repealed?

  1. #21
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    Re: Which Constitutional Amendments, if any, should be repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    5th and 8th.

    Criminals deserve no right to silence. The need to punish is or at lest should be unusual and punishment is never effective without some level of cruelty.
    I believe that the Eighth Amendment is unclearly written, and has come to be interpreted very differently than its original intent. I agree with what I believe to be its original intent, and believe that this intent should be in the Bill of Rights. I would only support repealing the Eight Amendment if it was done by way of a new Amendment which expresses what I believe to be the correct intent more clearly—that the punishment for a crime shall not be very far out of proportion to the severity of the crime.
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    Re: Which Constitutional Amendments, if any, should be repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    5th and 8th.

    Criminals deserve no right to silence. The need to punish is or at lest should be unusual and punishment is never effective without some level of cruelty.

    People invoking the fifth haven't yet been convicted so they aren't yet criminals.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Which Constitutional Amendments, if any, should be repealed?

    I think the 22nd should be expanded to include the House and Senate. Other than that...None of them should be repealed.
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    Re: Which Constitutional Amendments, if any, should be repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    5th and 8th.

    Criminals deserve no right to silence. The need to punish is or at lest should be unusual and punishment is never effective without some level of cruelty.
    Except that the 5th isn't there to protect criminals. It's there to protect the innocent. That is its main job. If you can't convict someone on actual evidence and eye witnesses then a person should not be convicted.

    As for the 8th, we're not barbarians. What might be considered "some level of cruelty" to you may very well not be cruel enough for others. I would have no problem reforming our punishment system, but there is no reason what so ever that we need to be like China and beat people just because a convict looks at someone cross eyed.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Which Constitutional Amendments, if any, should be repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    People invoking the fifth haven't yet been convicted so they aren't yet criminals.
    They are not yet "convicted" criminals. If however, they have committed a crime, then they are indeed a criminal.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Which Constitutional Amendments, if any, should be repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    I believe that the Eighth Amendment is unclearly written, and has come to be interpreted very differently than its original intent. I agree with what I believe to be its original intent, and believe that this intent should be in the Bill of Rights. I would only support repealing the Eight Amendment if it was done by way of a new Amendment which expresses what I believe to be the correct intent more clearly—that the punishment for a crime shall not be very far out of proportion to the severity of the crime.
    Punishment should be to the degree necessary to deter others from committing the same crime. Punishments should also be done publicly if possible, not hidden away.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Which Constitutional Amendments, if any, should be repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Except that the 5th isn't there to protect criminals. It's there to protect the innocent. That is its main job. If you can't convict someone on actual evidence and eye witnesses then a person should not be convicted.

    As for the 8th, we're not barbarians. What might be considered "some level of cruelty" to you may very well not be cruel enough for others. I would have no problem reforming our punishment system, but there is no reason what so ever that we need to be like China and beat people just because a convict looks at someone cross eyed.
    No, it is there for criminals to hide behind. It prevents the use and development of chemical interrogation or other means of determining guilt or innocence. Such methods should have protections against abuse but should not be stopped from being pursued.

    The Criminal Justice systems exist to catch, convict and punish criminals. It is mandated to do so in a way that does not necessarily infringe upon individual non-criminals rights.

    We are not, but almost all criminals are barbarians. (My apologies to all barbarians, intent was not to insult you but rather to show how little value criminals have.) Your example of China is flawed because it has nothing to do with punishment but rather what should or shouldn't be considered a crime.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  8. #28
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    Re: Which Constitutional Amendments, if any, should be repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    People invoking the fifth haven't yet been convicted so they aren't yet criminals.
    Kind of inconvenient for those who are impatient and want to execute immediately.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Which Constitutional Amendments, if any, should be repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    No, it is there for criminals to hide behind. It prevents the use and development of chemical interrogation or other means of determining guilt or innocence. Such methods should have protections against abuse but should not be stopped from being pursued.
    Chemical interrogation is unreliable and people can be trained to "fool" it. And no, it is not there for criminals to hide behind. Yes they can hide behind it, but that is not and never was its intention.

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    The Criminal Justice systems exist to catch, convict and punish criminals. It is mandated to do so in a way that does not necessarily infringe upon individual non-criminals rights.
    Except that you have to prove that someone is a criminal, and by then all of your points are moot as the 5th is no longer useable. You are advocating a system where people are guilty until proven innocent. Such a system was used for centuries and is easily abused. I much prefer the system of innocent until proven guilty.

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    We are not, but almost all criminals are barbarians. (My apologies to all barbarians, intent was not to insult you but rather to show how little value criminals have.) Your example of China is flawed because it has nothing to do with punishment but rather what should or shouldn't be considered a crime.
    Just because criminals can be barbarians does not mean that we have to act like criminals ourselves. And no, the China analogy is not flawed as that is a part of their punishment.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Which Constitutional Amendments, if any, should be repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Chemical interrogation is unreliable and people can be trained to "fool" it. And no, it is not there for criminals to hide behind. Yes they can hide behind it, but that is not and never was its intention.

    Except that you have to prove that someone is a criminal, and by then all of your points are moot as the 5th is no longer useable. You are advocating a system where people are guilty until proven innocent. Such a system was used for centuries and is easily abused. I much prefer the system of innocent until proven guilty.

    Just because criminals can be barbarians does not mean that we have to act like criminals ourselves. And no, the China analogy is not flawed as that is a part of their punishment.
    Which is precisely why the 5th Amendment was written to begin with. A good understanding of history and human psychology. Let's face facts, if people were capable of the type of restraint that DVS is claiming, then the 5th never would have been necessary in the first place.

    And yes, guilty people do misuse the intent of rights to their benefit, but you are correct in stating that that is not what said rights are for. They are there to protect the innocent.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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