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What should we do about Iraq?

What should we do about Iraq?


  • Total voters
    59
Personally, I started out more or less fully behind the war in Iraq back when it started.

Now I'm more or less on the opposite side.

Probably means I switched from conservative to liberal, or something...heh.

Did you go to the Lefty Indoctrination Ball? The swag bag includes a pez dispenser with oxycontins, a get out of jail free Obamacare card, a certificate for Planned Parenthood BOGO, and of course your food stamps that were redeemable at the Ruth Chris Steak House next door. Five lucky leftie get a Bong signed by Bill Maher and a months supply (that is a Maher month) of Acapulco Gold. And one special lefty gets a night in the Lincoln Bedroom and a drone strike of his or her choice.
 
I have a question for you lefties who want to stay the hell out. How much are you willing to pay for gas? $5.00 a gallon $10/00. a gallon because if we wah our hands of Iraq that is what we will pay.

This is complete nonsense. Just fully divorced from reality.
 
Put it this way.

We've given Iraq half a chance to get it's **** together at at least once now. Possibly twice.

They keep ****ing it up.

We help of course, but the saying goes that god helps those who help themselves. Probably something similar in Islam too, or whatever.
 
Did you go to the Lefty Indoctrination Ball? The swag bag includes a pez dispenser with oxycontins, a get out of jail free Obamacare card, a certificate for Planned Parenthood BOGO, and of course your food stamps that were redeemable at the Ruth Chris Steak House next door. Five lucky leftie get a Bong signed by Bill Maher and a months supply (that is a Maher month) of Acapulco Gold. And one special lefty gets a night in the Lincoln Bedroom and a drone strike of his or her choice.
Nah, I missed out on that ****.

Hell I don't even own a cell phone, so I missed out on even more...:2razz:
 
That's not what the fringies on the Far Right think.

Yes, Republicans and the Tea Party have essentially tried to make themselves the antithesis of Obama in every way possible and abandoning ideology entirely in favor of corporate interests. That does not mean that we on the left should become Obama apologists.
 
Nah, I missed out on that ****.

Hell I don't even own a cell phone, so I missed out on even more...:2razz:

Go to the back door of the White House and knock to the tune of "Oh Yeah"....they will hook you up.
 
Yes, Republicans and the Tea Party have essentially tried to make themselves the antithesis of Obama in every way possible and abandoning ideology entirely in favor of corporate interests. That does not mean that we on the left should become Obama apologists.
Completely, or even mostly, agreeing with Obama and his policies, is insane.

Completely, or even mostly, disagreeing with Obama and his policies, is ALSO insane.

As with anything, absolutes are absolutely unacceptable. And yes I know that contradicts itself.
 
Go to the back door of the White House and knock to the tune of "Oh Yeah"....they will hook you up.
Probably cost me more in gas to drive down to D.C. than it would to get a basic cell plan and a phone, actually...
 
Yes, Republicans and the Tea Party have essentially tried to make themselves the antithesis of Obama in every way possible and abandoning ideology entirely in favor of corporate interests. That does not mean that we on the left should become Obama apologists.

The problem is both parties are in bed with their corporate interests, Wall Street Firms, special interests, lobbyist, etc. Where do you think Romney and Obama got a billion dollars each to spend on their campaigns?

Here is some, breakdown by sector:

Barack Obama (D)
Agribusiness $2,067,055
Communications/ Electronics $20,723,578
Construction $4,172,690
Defense $1,141,130
Energy & Natural Resources $2,410,062
Finance, Insurance & Real Estate $20,431,321
Health $18,914,849
Lawyers & Lobbyists $27,959,192
Transportation $1,378,606
Misc Business $22,598,697
Labor $494,094
Ideological/ Single-Issue $17,276,836
Other $91,795,660


Mitt Romney (R)
Agribusiness $7,409,733
Communications/ Electronics $7,518,745
Construction $9,734,459
Defense $1,365,334
Energy & Natural Resources $9,788,922
Finance, Insurance & Real Estate $58,902,452
Health $18,692,033
Lawyers & Lobbyists $15,791,881
Transportation $5,803,510
Misc Business $29,090,785
Labor $4,250
Ideological/ Single-Issue $10,522,878
Other $72,942,064
 
And you say?

The choice isn't as binary as that. There are a plethora of things we can and should be doing short of sending troops back to Baghdad. I support intervention but I don't think it's necessary to send troops right now.
 
The problem is both parties are in bed with their corporate interests, Wall Street Firms, special interests, lobbyist, etc. Where do you think Romney and Obama got a billion dollars each to spend on their campaigns?

Here is some, breakdown by sector:

Barack Obama (D)
Agribusiness $2,067,055
Communications/ Electronics $20,723,578
Construction $4,172,690
Defense $1,141,130
Energy & Natural Resources $2,410,062
Finance, Insurance & Real Estate $20,431,321
Health $18,914,849
Lawyers & Lobbyists $27,959,192
Transportation $1,378,606
Misc Business $22,598,697
Labor $494,094
Ideological/ Single-Issue $17,276,836
Other $91,795,660


Mitt Romney (R)
Agribusiness $7,409,733
Communications/ Electronics $7,518,745
Construction $9,734,459
Defense $1,365,334
Energy & Natural Resources $9,788,922
Finance, Insurance & Real Estate $58,902,452
Health $18,692,033
Lawyers & Lobbyists $15,791,881
Transportation $5,803,510
Misc Business $29,090,785
Labor $4,250
Ideological/ Single-Issue $10,522,878
Other $72,942,064

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Completely, or even mostly, agreeing with Obama and his policies, is insane.

Completely, or even mostly, disagreeing with Obama and his policies, is ALSO insane.

As with anything, absolutes are absolutely unacceptable. And yes I know that contradicts itself.

I think that rejection of absolutism is the only area in which absolutism should be used. :p
 
I don't really know if we should or should not put troops back in Iraq. Or even whether we should support them without deploying troops on the ground.


I suspect that the only way to really stabilize the region would be to separate it into several "states", with majority Shia, Sunni, or Kurd residents in each - it would appear that any one faction having majority control (as seemingly took place when we were helping) is a bad idea.

It's kinda like if republicans and democrats were willing to kill and terrorize each other in order to advance their position. The Kurds are the independents, centrists, and such, sitting in their territory shaking their heads. And keeping the democrats and republicans out.

Terrible analogy I know.

So far as I can tell, however, thought processes are just DIFFERENT in that country...hell maybe the region.
They don't have the same priorities that I have, it would seem...




What makes everyone think that these Islamic terrorists would accept a three state solution even if Malicai agreed? They are already talking Lebanon and Jordon and beyond....
 
3 people voted to remain in Iraq.

46 voted to get out.

I have not researched the people who voted, but are you saying all 46 that voted "no" are "lefties"?



I voted to stay in Iraq, but not troops on the ground.
 
This is complete nonsense. Just fully divorced from reality.



Kobie, why do you consider rising gas prices are complete nonsense..? .This has already been predicted.
 
Yes, Republicans and the Tea Party have essentially tried to make themselves the antithesis of Obama in every way possible and abandoning ideology entirely in favor of corporate interests. That does not mean that we on the left should become Obama apologists.

Well, I don't think those of us on the 'left' are obliged to do the Right wing's work for them. Obama has never been a left wing democrat, especially not on foreign policy issues. Had he been on the Far Left, I wouldn't have voted for him. Neither would a hell of a lot of other 'slightly Liberal' voters either.
 
What makes everyone think that these Islamic terrorists would accept a three state solution even if Malicai agreed? They are already talking Lebanon and Jordon and beyond....

Don't know that they would.

Perhaps the only way to keep some level of stability in the region is to resurrect Saddam and put him back in charge.


Edit: Or do the same by telling them "stop fighting each other or we'll murder you alot".
 
Don't know that they would.

Perhaps the only way to keep some level of stability in the region is to resurrect Saddam and put him back in charge.


Edit: Or do the same by telling them "stop fighting each other or we'll murder you alot".



No, the only way to stabilize the region is eliminate ISIS, then make sure that a new inclusive government is formed and keep some U.S. " advisors" there permanently...
 
No, the only way to stabilize the region is eliminate ISIS, then make sure that a new inclusive government is formed and keep some U.S. " advisors" there permanently...
Thought we did that last time.
 
Thought we did that last time.




Not really. We certainly did not see that an inclusive government was formed..and we left no advisors except embassy personnel, nor was ISIS there when we left..
 
Well, I don't think those of us on the 'left' are obliged to do the Right wing's work for them. Obama has never been a left wing democrat, especially not on foreign policy issues. Had he been on the Far Left, I wouldn't have voted for him. Neither would a hell of a lot of other 'slightly Liberal' voters either.

What do you mean by do the right's work? Is Obama immune from criticism from leftists?
 
Not really. We certainly did not see that an inclusive government was formed..and we left no advisors except embassy personnel, nor was ISIS there when we left..
But is it even possible to form an inclusive government? Hell so far as I can tell, the Kurds want their own place and to be left alone, but the Sunni and Shia factions want to damn well kill each other.

What little I know indicates a fundamental difference in religious belief...
 
Kobie, why do you consider rising gas prices are complete nonsense..? .This has already been predicted.

Gas prices (which have fluctuated over the last 2-3 years but basically averaged out stagnant) are not particularly affected by Iraq.

I'm not saying that gas prices aren't up, just that any turmoil in Iraq isn't the cause. Oil is a global market, which includes production and consumption. And the idea that U.S. gas prices will TRIPLE (which NP said when he made his $10/gal claim) is preposterous.
 
No, the only way to stabilize the region is eliminate ISIS, then make sure that a new inclusive government is formed and keep some U.S. " advisors" there permanently...

And how on earth do you propose that we do that without another prolonged occupation?
 
Since the USA gets most oil from Canada and Latin America, I see little value in occupying Iraq, though the Iraqi refugees are sometimes interesting. I met an artist who trained at a school in Baghdad. His family had been sent to the USA after America destroyed and upturned his homeland. Though frankly it probably sucks as an artist to lose your entire life reference and culture.
 
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