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Should Confucius Institutes Be Banned?

Should Confucius Institutes Be Banned?


  • Total voters
    12

Carjosse

Sit Nomine Digna
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Should Confucius Institutes be banned? They only serve as fronts to spread Chinese Communist Party propaganda and commit espionage on other countries. They are controlled by the CCP and need to be stopped.

This telegraph article, is about: "The American Association of University Professors (AAUP) called for agreements between Confucius Institutes and nearly 100 universities to be either cancelled or renegotiated so that they properly reflected Western values of free speech."
"Confucius Institutes function as an arm of the Chinese state and are allowed to ignore academic freedom," the AAUP said in a statement, urging US universities to "cease their involvement" with the institutes unless major reforms are instituted.
China's network of 300 Confucius Institutes – including 11 branches in on British university campuses – can be a lucrative source of funds for universities but are exempt from many of the basic rules government academic discourse.
They are designed to project a favourable image of China's ruling Communist Party around the world through language and cultural programmes, but are allowed to restrict discussions of topics unpalatable to China's ruling Communist Party such as the occupation of Tibet.

We need to rid our countries of these institutes. They have found their way into the Toronto District School Board, the largest school board in Canada. Thanks to the Chairman of the board seems to be paid off or influenced by the CCP, the TDSB signed a contract with the Confucius Institute. He retired the next day and blamed the entire thing on Falung Gong which is even more evidence he is paid off or influenced by the CCP.

- CI IS 100% controlled by the Chinese communist party (CCP)

- CI teacher in Canada rallies students to attack Tibet.

- CI Students sing songs boasting communist world domination.

- CI Teachers must meet Political Ideology requirements.

- CI Discriminates against Minority Groups in Canada.

- “CI’s are an important part of China's overseas propaganda set-up.” – Chinese gov't

More in this video:


Canadians, or anyone really, sign the petition here.
 
Having witnessed first hand the CCP exploiting their own people, their failure to provide for the health and well being of their population, and their total opposition to free speech, freedom and liberty, I support pretty much anything that would undermine the CCP :thumbs:.
 
Having witnessed first hand the CCP exploiting their own people, their failure to provide for the health and well being of their population, and their total opposition to free speech, freedom and liberty, I support pretty much anything that would undermine the CCP :thumbs:.

You really think that forbidding free speech will make America a better place? I would expect that out of Moscow or Peking, maybe out of continental Europe.
 
You really think that forbidding free speech will make America a better place? I would expect that out of Moscow or Peking, maybe out of continental Europe.

It is not limiting free speech, it is shutting down espionage and indoctrination.
 
"Freedom of speech doesn't protect you from speech you like. It protects you from speech you hate."

I think this needs to be taken into consideration when debating this issue. I'm not a fan of communism by any means, but to ban or restrict their political activities is a violation of freedom of expression. I agree with joG that this doesn't seem in line with regular American policy either; I disagree with the U.S. government on the vast majority of issues, but the decisions of other first-world nations to ban "hate speech" and the like has always been disappointing. I do however, support the rights of colleges to choose to end their partnerships with the organizations. And as will all political organizations, the CCP should be fined for stating and promoting false statements.
 
It is not limiting free speech, it is shutting down espionage and indoctrination.

Espionage is a crime. In that case the FBI proves it and the people go to jail. If it can be proven, that the crimes were organized by the groupe it is organized crime and the membership is criminal. We have laws for that.

Indoctrination is not necessarily or even usually forbidden and in most cases it is allowed. Where illegal, the law prevails and should do so.

But I had understood you wanted to forbid the organization like Egypt, Russia or China do. And I don't think we should do that.
 
ban them?... no.

publish information on them and let folks decide whether to host CCP propaganda or not.... and make sure students know what they are getting into as well.
 
The US govt should really consider hiring people to teach Mandarin and Cantonese to people in public schools because it's going to be important. And also consider establishing state-sponsored languages groups where people can go and learn these things.
 
The US govt should really consider hiring people to teach Mandarin and Cantonese to people in public schools because it's going to be important. And also consider establishing state-sponsored languages groups where people can go and learn these things.

I thought that you could learn Mandarin and probably Cantonese in schools around the country. When I was in London I ran into American colleagues that spoke "Chinese" fluently and said they had learned it in high-school. Since they were in their 40ies then, that must have been a while back.
I remember thinking how great that was.
 
You really think that forbidding free speech will make America a better place? I would expect that out of Moscow or Peking, maybe out of continental Europe.

I suppose I didn't really clarify what I meant. I wouldn't support banning the institutes outright, but as an organization that blatantly spreads lies and stifles thought and discussion, I don't think their association with schools and universities is at all appropriate.
 
The US govt should really consider hiring people to teach Mandarin and Cantonese to people in public schools because it's going to be important. And also consider establishing state-sponsored languages groups where people can go and learn these things.

They should but it shouldn't be people who are known to spy to the American government and industry and teach the language by singing songs about how glorious Mao is and why Falung Gong needs to be persecuted.
 
You really think that forbidding free speech will make America a better place? I would expect that out of Moscow or Peking, maybe out of continental Europe.

Would you support having Nazi groups go into schools to teach German with songs about how Jews are evil and Hitler was the greatest man who ever lived? The Confucius Institute wants to paint Mao, the greatest murderer in history in a positive light. If you would not support having Nazi groups in schools, why support the CCP?
 
They should but it shouldn't be people who are known to spy to the American government and industry and teach the language by singing songs about how glorious Mao is and why Falung Gong needs to be persecuted.

Which is why I said state-sponsored.

In my city there is a japanesse club. They teach people japanesse. Now I ofc, never went to it because japanesse sounds either too silly or too dark and broody and it's overall an ugly language. It also sounds a lot like hungarian so screw that. But there are people who attend and love it. The guy teaching there is not a jap, he's a romanian who knows japanesse. I'm also learning german so you know, 1 language at a time. Which btw, there is a german state-sponsored culture club in my city where I can go and take german lessons and german tests. It is sponsored by the german govt as I said but it is also subsidized by my govt because it's part of the academia. But the people who work there are romanians who just speak german real good.

I'm advocating the same for you know... chinesse (mandarin and cantonesse, chinesse as a language doesn't exist per se). Americans who know chinesse to be encouraged to start such clubs. It will be very useful. It is useful today and it will be very useful in the near future.
The anglosphere is losing a lot by this stubborn refusal to be monolingual. You see this in Britain and the US and to an extent in KangarooLand and less so in Canada coz there a lot of people also speak French.

Bilingualism has shown to have immense benefits for the brain (health-wise, like reducing chance of mental disabilities and disorders like alzheimers) and for the way people think.
 
Which is why I said state-sponsored.

In my city there is a japanesse club. They teach people japanesse. Now I ofc, never went to it because japanesse sounds either too silly or too dark and broody and it's overall an ugly language. It also sounds a lot like hungarian so screw that. But there are people who attend and love it. The guy teaching there is not a jap, he's a romanian who knows japanesse. I'm also learning german so you know, 1 language at a time. Which btw, there is a german state-sponsored culture club in my city where I can go and take german lessons and german tests. It is sponsored by the german govt as I said but it is also subsidized by my govt because it's part of the academia. But the people who work there are romanians who just speak german real good.

I'm advocating the same for you know... chinesse (mandarin and cantonesse, chinesse as a language doesn't exist per se). Americans who know chinesse to be encouraged to start such clubs. It will be very useful. It is useful today and it will be very useful in the near future.
The anglosphere is losing a lot by this stubborn refusal to be monolingual. You see this in Britain and the US and to an extent in KangarooLand and less so in Canada coz there a lot of people also speak French.

Bilingualism has shown to have immense benefits for the brain (health-wise, like reducing chance of mental disabilities and disorders like alzheimers) and for the way people think.

When I was in Montreal to see my university, I heard some many languages spoken and people would flow between them. Our hotel was also in the most multicultural area of the country, one second you would here French then it switches to English, Chinese, Hebrew, or Arabic (yes Hebrew and Arabic in the same area). I was listening to a group of elementary school girls waiting in line ahead of us to get through the turnstiles for the subway and they switched seamlessly between English, French, and Chinese. We do need more language classes as being multilingual and groups like that would help except when they are run by the CCP's propaganda ministry.
 
When I was in Montreal to see my university, I heard some many languages spoken and people would flow between them. Our hotel was also in the most multicultural area of the country, one second you would here French then it switches to English, Chinese, Hebrew, or Arabic (yes Hebrew and Arabic in the same area). I was listening to a group of elementary school girls waiting in line ahead of us to get through the turnstiles for the subway and they switched seamlessly between English, French, and Chinese. We do need more language classes as being multilingual and groups like that would help except when they are run by the CCP's propaganda ministry.

I'm not commenting on the whole espionage claim. It's not the relevant part of the discussion if you ask me. If the chinesse wanted to spy on the USA all they have to do is watch the news and if they wanna infiltrate american society, they'd do so more sneaky rather than teaching people chinesse. At least that's how I see things. What they'd do is sponsor a movement, there are plenty that they could bankroll, and let them work, do recruiting, spread the word and go and persuade people. And there's plenty of sinofils who would do it. I'm sure if you google for pro-chinesse movements in the USA you'd find a bunch.

And yes, as I said, that's canada. They have a lot of such programs. I know a lot of people learn hindi there too.

But the point still stands. Luxemburgians speak, on capita, the most languages per person with an average of 2.2 foreign languages per person.
Luxembourg, the most multilingual country in Europe - Jobs.lu - Jobs in Luxembourg.

Then you have the island state of Malta and Cyprus and Switzerland and to your shock and maybe surprise, Albanians are known to be very multilingual, also countries where you have people with high rates of multilingualism. Belgium, the netherlands are also very high up there.

Here is some more:
Multilingual Europe | Language on the Move

2 foreign languages is rapidly becoming the norm in most european countries with the exception of, you guessed it, England. And it's the same story in the anglosphere. Because English is such a dominant language and you can get by just with it, people don't feel the need to learn it. But it pays off knowing foreign languages.

Which is why I said. If you don't want other influences getting in on the action and educating people through foreign language courses, and maybe putting in some propaganda here and there... maybe the state should get in on the action and satisfy this need. Put these resources for people to access.
 
I'm not commenting on the whole espionage claim. It's not the relevant part of the discussion if you ask me. If the chinesse wanted to spy on the USA all they have to do is watch the news and if they wanna infiltrate american society, they'd do so more sneaky rather than teaching people chinesse. At least that's how I see things. What they'd do is sponsor a movement, there are plenty that they could bankroll, and let them work, do recruiting, spread the word and go and persuade people. And there's plenty of sinofils who would do it. I'm sure if you google for pro-chinesse movements in the USA you'd find a bunch.

And yes, as I said, that's canada. They have a lot of such programs. I know a lot of people learn hindi there too.

But the point still stands. Luxemburgians speak, on capita, the most languages per person with an average of 2.2 foreign languages per person.
Luxembourg, the most multilingual country in Europe - Jobs.lu - Jobs in Luxembourg.

Then you have the island state of Malta and Cyprus and Switzerland and to your shock and maybe surprise, Albanians are known to be very multilingual, also countries where you have people with high rates of multilingualism. Belgium, the netherlands are also very high up there.

Here is some more:
Multilingual Europe | Language on the Move

2 foreign languages is rapidly becoming the norm in most european countries with the exception of, you guessed it, England. And it's the same story in the anglosphere. Because English is such a dominant language and you can get by just with it, people don't feel the need to learn it. But it pays off knowing foreign languages.

Which is why I said. If you don't want other influences getting in on the action and educating people through foreign language courses, and maybe putting in some propaganda here and there... maybe the state should get in on the action and satisfy this need. Put these resources for people to access.

Belgium I laugh at, maybe Flanders but definitely not Wallonia. I wish I could find statistics on the average number of language spoken here but the government only collects statistics on primary language spoken at home. Quebec is trying to teach more English again since they just elected a Liberal government again. Couillard saying that English does have a place in Quebec.
 
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Belgium I laugh at, maybe Flanders but definitely not Wallonia.

Well, ok, but again, this is to do with states in Europe recognizing that there is a need for multilingualism and that it is an economic, health and social benefit to it.

If the US govt doesn't get in on the action and start putting important financial and intellectual efforts into developing a multilingual resource structure in the country, so that people can go to and access, like culture clubs for all sort of languages and improving the quality of foreign language teaching in public schools, don't be surprised when other countries/factions/companies/whatever are going to get in on the action.

If the USA would have state sponsored chinesse (again, mandarin or cantonesse as the main largest ones, chinesse as a language doesn't exist) learning and study clubs there would be no need for confucious institutions which could be operating under the orders of a foreign power. Again, I'm not saying they are or aren't, that's not the discussions I'm interested in, I am just saying, you cut out that possibility so you don't have to worry about it.

Same with arabic. And this will be controversial. A few years ago there was that story of a highschool in NY I think putting arabic as a optional language course and people freaked the **** out. Recently you had that "under Allah" pledge controversy which was stupid to say the least but w/e. The point is, if you know arabic in the USA today, you can get a 6 figure paying job in many government jobs and private companies like oil companies and others. There is a demand for this. Why should an american company who is doing business in the ME have to pay an arab a salary over there when he can hire an american who speaks arabic. An american would be more qualified, he would understand his job better, he would be more flexible and more reliable, and bam... 6 figure salary. So this is the problem. And this is a failing of the US govt who should have done important projects to raise arabic learning in the USA because it knows there are problems in the ME and at some point, it'll have to intervene... and it also knows that the people who know arabic are useful.

Imagine if Saudi Arabia would be sponsoring... idk... "mohammed rullz" culture clubs in the USA to teach people arabic and one of the main ways they'd do that is by teaching them the koran and having them memorize islamic scriptures. You'd be pissed as ****. I would. So why not have the govt handle this affair and cut the legs from under anyone trying to manipulate the process.
 
I suppose I didn't really clarify what I meant. I wouldn't support banning the institutes outright, but as an organization that blatantly spreads lies and stifles thought and discussion, I don't think their association with schools and universities is at all appropriate.

No reason public schools and universities have to associate with them. But I have always thought it a good idea to confront the intellectual enemy face on and would like to think the faults in its arguments be shown up.
 
Would you support having Nazi groups go into schools to teach German with songs about how Jews are evil and Hitler was the greatest man who ever lived? The Confucius Institute wants to paint Mao, the greatest murderer in history in a positive light. If you would not support having Nazi groups in schools, why support the CCP?

I think I would want all groups treated the same as i described above. Crime is treated as crime and stupid ideas are explained and are argued with. That is how free democratic society works best.
 
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No. The only way to deal with bad ideas is to give them a full airing and let people come to the conclusion on their own that they're bad ideas.
 
No. The only way to deal with bad ideas is to give them a full airing and let people come to the conclusion on their own that they're bad ideas.

How about the fact they are fronts for spying?
 
How about the fact they are fronts for spying?

Spying is illegal. If spying is going on the spies should be arrested. Has anyone associated with the organization in the United Stated been arrested for spying?
 
Spying is illegal. If spying is going on the spies should be arrested. Has anyone associated with the organization in the United Stated been arrested for spying?

They have been accused and have been investigated by multiple agencies in both the U.S. and Canada. They steal industry secrets form our companies and the U.S. loses billions maybe trillions to theft.
 
They have been accused and have been investigated by multiple agencies in both the U.S. and Canada. They steal industry secrets form our companies and the U.S. loses billions maybe trillions to theft.

I'm sure China steals from us but in this case if these people gave been investigated multiple times by both the US and Canada and there haven't been wholesale arrests of their members you don't have much basis for your statement that they steal billions from us and should be thrown out.
 
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