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Who has been our greatest President?[W:196]

Who has been our greatest President?


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Re: Who has been our greatest President?


I see, well I must disagree with you. But then I am nit a progressive. Fdr wasnt bad as war president, but much of his economic ideas were ruinious and to our detriment.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

you have identified pirates as winners

and if this were 1979,he would be correct.

Can I que up "We are Family" on the turntable yet?
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

And what would you have done as FDR? Just look at how your GOP treated Bergdahl's Father, calling him a Muslim and far worse. How GOPs have trashed their own in Idaho, the REDDEST state in the Union. Spare us your hindsight--war is hell and we were attacked .

Bergdahl's father isn't the subject of this thread, nor is the GOP and Idaho. We're discussing Presidents.

We weren't attacked by Americans, which are the people FDR ordered interred. FDR abused his power by going after his country's citizens. If Bush ordered all Muslim-Americans interred because of 9/11, he wouldn't have gotten away with it.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

Bergdahl's father isn't the subject of this thread, nor is the GOP and Idaho. We're discussing Presidents.

We weren't attacked by Americans, which are the people FDR ordered interred. FDR abused his power by going after his country's citizens. If Bush ordered all Muslim-Americans interred because of 9/11, he wouldn't have gotten away with it.
let's see how the supreme court responded to your objections:
... It is said that we are dealing here with the case of imprisonment of a citizen in a concentration camp solely because of his ancestry, without evidence or inquiry concerning his loyalty and good disposition towards the United States. Our task would be simple, our duty clear, were this a case involving the imprisonment of a loyal citizen in a concentration camp because of racial prejudice. Regardless of the true nature of the assembly and relocation centers -- and we deem it unjustifiable to call them concentration camps, with all the ugly connotations that term implies -- we are dealing specifically with nothing but an exclusion order. To cast this case into outlines of racial prejudice, without reference to the real military dangers which were presented, merely confuses the issue. Korematsu was not excluded from the Military Area because of hostility to him or his race. He was excluded because we are at war with the Japanese Empire, because the properly constituted military authorities feared an invasion of our West Coast and felt constrained to take proper security measures, because they decided that the military urgency of the situation demanded that all citizens of Japanese ancestry be segregated from the West Coast temporarily, and, finally, because Congress, reposing its confidence in this time of war in our military leaders -- as inevitably it must -- determined that they should have the power to do just this. There was evidence of disloyalty on the part of some, the military authorities considered that the need for [p224] action was great, and time was short. We cannot -- by availing ourselves of the calm perspective of hindsight -- now say that, at that time, these actions were unjustified.
the supreme court anticipated your objections, which is shown in the text i have emphasized
Korematsu v. United States | LII / Legal Information Institute
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

once more you have placed your confusion on public display
you have identified pirates as winners

And goverment isnt supposed tobe used to steal from one group to bribe voters.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

And goverment isnt supposed tobe used to steal from one group to bribe voters.

stealing you insist
did not know about this. please show us proof of the theft
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

stealing you insist
did not know about this. please show us proof of the theft

By their silly standard it logically results that taking a single dollar from one person which in some way benefits a different person is stealing. Thus any taxation an any spending violates their standard. And that is how absurd such claims from the far right are. No government on the face of the earth could function under such a ridiculous and inane restraint.

Of course, that does not stop such extremist critics from living here and continuing to enjoy the fruits of such "theft" that also benefits them on a daily basis.
 
Who has been our greatest President?

As President, not other times and aspects of their life.

I have to say Abraham Lincoln. I have to say that the challenge he faced was greater than those faced by Washington, though Washington's character was certainly superior than that of any other president I can think of.

And the fact that people even voted for Clinton, much less Teddy Roosevelt, is mind-boggling. I sorta wish you'd have included Bush 43 to see just how many would have voted for him. But I'm glad to see no one voted for Wilson, who gets my vote as the worst president since 1900.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

FDR was President during the period. He presided over the climb out of the Depression and over the triumph over fascism.

yes he was president at that time, however the depression was not over when the WWII started, the war pulled us out of it.

America was in sorry shape before and during the wars beginning, American troop training involved wooden rifles and machine guns, and trucks with word "tank" written on them to simulate battles, WWI helmets, along with 1903 springfield rifles.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

yes he was president at that time, however the depression was not over when the WWII started, the war pulled us out of it.

America was in sorry shape before and during the wars beginning, American troop training involved wooden rifles and machine guns, and trucks with word "tank" written on them to simulate battles, WWI helmets, along with 1903 springfield rifles.

Which proves conclusively that massive government spending was needed to turn the tide against the depression.

I find it both ironic and amusing that so many members of the libertarian right have not yet gotten the message from their libertarian predecessors. Two previous surveys funded by the rightist Federalist Society and the conservative Wall Street Journal in which their own specially selected hand picked experts decided FDR was indeed GREAT somehow has not deterred the neo-libertarians from their own special cause celebre to brand FDR as the spawn of satan.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

By their silly standard it logically results that taking a single dollar from one person which in some way benefits a different person is stealing. Thus any taxation an any spending violates their standard. And that is how absurd such claims from the far right are. No government on the face of the earth could function under such a ridiculous and inane restraint.

Of course, that does not stop such extremist critics from living here and continuing to enjoy the fruits of such "theft" that also benefits them on a daily basis.
but the same 'you didn't build that' crew is oblivious to how the infrastructure those taxes pay for is so beneficial to our collective standard of living. how those taxes enable the building of highways, bridges, airports, waterways essential for commerce as well as personal travel. how those taxes protect us from those who would do us harm at home and abroad. their only focus is what someone in need received from taxes that they did not also qualify to receive, because they begrudge the provision of the needy. it makes no sense. THEY make no sense. but then we read their posts and are reaffirmed of that stark - and shameful - reality
 
Libertarians and other losers want a tiny government so they can rape the general population as much as possible, eliminating as many regulations as possible so that others, the country, the environment, and pretty much everything can be destroyed as long as they get "theirs". They want as small a federal government as possible because it is far easier for them to control and corrupt the smaller state governments so they can soak everyone except their own little elite group. Thank goodness that FDR was elected and made sure none of this occurred.
You had me until the last sentence. I do know some libertarians who believe in the intent of the concept, but really most libertarians I know only use it as a way to justify what they really want, which is a way to gain as much money and power and influence for themselves as possible without annoying regulations or ethics holding them back.


Good point bubba.
For all those who commiserate with the two dropped nukes, I wouldn't have been willing to lose a half million soldiers attacking Japan.

And since you mention nukes and FDR, I don't see anyone challenging IKE's use of carpet-bombing in Germany either .
Maybe because others are following the intent of the thread as stated in post #1, re-quoted here for your convenience...
Who has been our greatest President?

As President, not other times and aspects of their life.


I have to say Abraham Lincoln. I have to say that the challenge he faced was greater than those faced by Washington, though Washington's character was certainly superior than that of any other president I can think of.
This is a good comparison.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

but the same 'you didn't build that' crew is oblivious to how the infrastructure those taxes pay for is so beneficial to our collective standard of living. how those taxes enable the building of highways, bridges, airports, waterways essential for commerce as well as personal travel. how those taxes protect us from those who would do us harm at home and abroad. their only focus is what someone in need received from taxes that they did not also qualify to receive, because they begrudge the provision of the needy. it makes no sense. THEY make no sense. but then we read their posts and are reaffirmed of that stark - and shameful - reality

well stated. And with a perfectly straight face and feigning the utmost sincerity they will bemoan the fact that they really do not have a choice in living in the greatest country on the earth and using those roads and highways and flying out of those airports and benefitting from those hospitals and waterways and all the things you mentioned. They hide from their own hypocrisy in condemning such things but then happily use them and benefit from them every day of their lives.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

Is there a way the discussions about taxes can stop and people can get back on the topic? This is an interesting thread, once all of the completely non-topic posts stop.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

Which proves conclusively that massive government spending was needed to turn the tide against the depression.

I find it both ironic and amusing that so many members of the libertarian right have not yet gotten the message from their libertarian predecessors. Two previous surveys funded by the rightist Federalist Society and the conservative Wall Street Journal in which their own specially selected hand picked experts decided FDR was indeed GREAT somehow has not deterred the neo-libertarians from their own special cause celebre to brand FDR as the spawn of satan.

massive government spending went into the depression, it did not pull us out......... massive spending on the war effort pulled us out.

after the war with America undamaged by it, we were able to ship our goods to every part of the world creating economic prosperity for America until the world recovered from that war.

what is a neo-libertarian?

I don't claim FDR was Satan, however he did do wrong, I could not get his legislation passed so he stacked the court, passed federal laws for powers not delegated by the constitution.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

massive government spending went into the depression, it did not pull us out......... massive spending on the war effort pulled us out.

after the war with America undamaged by it, we were able to ship our goods to every part of the world creating economic prosperity for America until the world recovered from that war.

what is a neo-libertarian?

I don't claim FDR was Satan, however he did do wrong, I could not get his legislation passed so he stacked the court, passed federal laws for powers not delegated by the constitution.
it appears you actually agree with haymarket
it was the massive government spending which was required to move our nation out of the great depression
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

stealing you insist
did not know about this. please show us proof of the theft
The taking by force the goods or property. When govermwments do this they call it a tax. Used for the common use good like military, infrastructure and such is fine. When its used for barely policed welfare, never ending unemployment, solyndra or other pork, bs bribes its ****ing theft.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

it appears you actually agree with haymarket
it was the massive government spending which was required to move our nation out of the great depression

Nope WWII spending didn't pull us out. Myth. The destruction of most industrial nations and the US being unscathed allowed conversion from war to private enterprise that fueled the recovery.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

Μολὼν λαβέ;1063459782 said:
LBJ a victim?

He started the Vietnam "war," not Eisenhower. He could have easily pulled back troops but chose to escalate the conflict instead.

LBJ deserves all the blame. It cost him his presidency. Sorry you feel the need to make excuses for him and can't see that.

Truman and Eisenhower supported the French in Vietnam to gain their support in Europe against the USSR. After the French defeat in 1954, the US had no reason to stay. Nevertheless, Eisenhower did. Everything else is the result of Eisenhower's war mongering.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

Nope WWII spending didn't pull us out. Myth. The destruction of most industrial nations and the US being unscathed allowed conversion from war to private enterprise that fueled the recovery.

not true
and here is my proof
immediately after the war, before we re-tooled to export to the rest of the now destroyed world, we had regained a good standard of living
try again
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

His goals were achieved as we both put the Depression behind us and then defeated global fascism. Deal with that. To pretend otherwise is self imposed mental illness.

You're right, it makes no sense, you posted it.

What are you talking about...."mental illness issues"? That makes no sense.

The fact is that FDR is consistently listed as a GREAT PRESIDENT in survey after survey after survey of experts in the areas of politics and history over the last sixty years. And that happens even when conservatives and libertarians hand pick their own panels. And the reason for it is the successful end to the Depression and the triumph over fascism.

Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the most comprehensive chart of surveys on the matter I have ever come across. It demonstrates clearly beyond any doubt that the experts select FDR over and over and over again as a GREAT PRESIDENT no matter who selects them and that includes the libertarian leaning Federalist Society.

The following is from the web site you sourced from your 3 second google seach.

Ranking systems are usually based on surveys of academic historians and political scientists or popular opinion.

Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sure, go with opinion rather than facts.

Besides, your response has nothing to do with your assertion that FDR goals/policies were responsible for the US climbing out of the great depression, which they were not.

At least you're good at deflection, I guess since you need to use it so often.

My great concern is not whether you have failed, but whether you are content with your failure.
Abraham Lincoln

Abraham Lincoln Quotes - BrainyQuote

Apparently you are...
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

The taking by force the goods or property. When govermwments do this they call it a tax. Used for the common use good like military, infrastructure and such is fine. When its used for barely policed welfare, never ending unemployment, solyndra or other pork, bs bribes its ****ing theft.

why do you volunteer to remain in a place that steals from you? do you not have the means to escape to another place
that you choose to remain here of your own volition betrays the illegitimacy of your weak argument
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

it appears you actually agree with haymarket
it was the massive government spending which was required to move our nation out of the great depression

well yes, but not in a way you may think,.....wars cannot be fought by individual states it takes an entity like the federal government to bind our union together, and that is what the constitution does.

but you cannot continue to tax and spend, sooner it later is going to end because debt matters......and when you turn it off, It has negative effects.

today America has massive debt because of that kind of thinking, and its not just left its also from the right.
 
Re: Who has been our greatest President?

Truman and Eisenhower supported the French in Vietnam to gain their support in Europe against the USSR. After the French defeat in 1954, the US had no reason to stay. Nevertheless, Eisenhower did. Everything else is the result of Eisenhower's war mongering.
absolutely
there was an agreement in place with ho chi minh during WWII, subsequent to his military alliance, that vietnam would gain its independence after the war. the french abrogated that understanding and ike did nothing to stop the french stupidity
 
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