Who has been our greatest President?[W:196]

tres borrachos said:

You're a man after my own heart, then. I'm a big Coolidge fan.

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Μολὼν λαβέ;1063457087 said:

His goals didn't allow the US to overcome the great depression, unless he sat on the knowledge that Pearl Harbor was going to be bombed, no matter how noble they may have been. Anyone who believes otherwise is delusional.

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Ockham said:

Neither was Nixon.

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Phys251 said:

Wow. Keep it classy, guys.

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haymarket said:

His goals were achieved as we both put the Depression behind us and then defeated global fascism. Deal with that. To pretend otherwise is self imposed mental illness.

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CaptainCourtesy said:

Incorrect. I understand the reality of how the country works and what the country needs unlike most FDR-haters. The New Deal was the hallmark of social programs that should be held up as an example for others and has done more to HELP this county than things most other Presidents have done. The only people who think that FDR caused harm are people who are just anti-liberals and go along with that belief lockstep with little actually understanding, or people who's ideology dictates their thinking rather than the other way around.

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NIMBY said:

As many times as I've driven the 950 to and from Denver, the upcoming Western trip will be more like 700 a day with my Wife along.
Over the Big Horns and through Yellowstone to the West Entrance.
All roads in the park are upgraded and done.
National Forest roads around Yellowstone/Tetons are also awesome as you know.


So is Trail Ridge road open yet?
Isn't this another year for construction out to Bear Lake or is it done ?

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Andalublue said:

It seemed like the rational response to yet another dose of political onanism.

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Paschendale said:

Well, I'm certainly glad to see that Wilson has no votes. Seriously, **** that guy. But his wife Edith deserves tremendous praise and credit for her efforts on the 19th amendment. It's a shame we couldn't have her instead of him the whole time.

In terms of presidents, as opposed to their congresses, really standing out and making a difference, the best probably has to go to FDR. In terms of having a vision and making it come true, and that vision being such a game changer and transforming this nation into its modern shape and doing so much good for so many Americans... it's hard to top FDR. Of course, one person having that much power is somewhat contrary to the vision of divided power in this country, so there's definitely a double edge to that sword.

Johnson should get more credit than he does for his strong support for civil rights. Carter should get more credit than he does for his anti war stances. And I'm personally a fan of Jackson and his populism and stances against the financial elite. Taft likewise should get more credit for his opposition to the financial elite. He did more trust busting than Teddy.

I'm honestly baffled at why people like Kennedy so much. What did he do that was so worthy of admiration? I know people liked him because of his youth and charisma, but the only actual things I know of that he did were getting us into Vietnam and not starting a war over the Cuban Missile Crisis. The latter is good, but hardly cause for all the praise he gets. Oh, and he was really really unfaithful to his wife.

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Phys251 said:

WTF is "onanism"? If this is a reference to the biblical story, how the hell does it have anything to do with wanting presidents to die in office?

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haymarket said:

His goals were achieved as we both put the Depression behind us and then defeated global fascism. Deal with that. To pretend otherwise is self imposed mental illness.

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'He got us out of the Great Depression." That's probably the most frequent comment made about President Franklin Roosevelt, who died 65 years ago today. Every Democratic president from Truman to Obama has believed it, and each has used FDR's New Deal as a model for expanding the government.

It's a myth. FDR did not get us out of the Great Depression—not during the 1930s, and only in a limited sense during World War II.

The New Deal, by forcing taxes up and discouraging entrepreneurs from investing, probably did more harm than good.

Roosevelt died before the war ended and before he could implement his New Deal revival. His successor, Harry Truman, in a 16,000 word message on Sept. 6, 1945, urged Congress to enact FDR's ideas as the best way to achieve full employment after the war.

Congress—both chambers with Democratic majorities—responded by just saying "no." No to the whole New Deal revival: no federal program for health care, no full-employment act, only limited federal housing, and no increase in minimum wage or Social Security benefits.

Instead, Congress reduced taxes. Income tax rates were cut across the board. FDR's top marginal rate, 94% on all income over $200,000, was cut to 86.45%. The lowest rate was cut to 19% from 23%, and with a change in the amount of income exempt from taxation an estimated 12 million Americans were eliminated from the tax rolls entirely.

Corporate tax rates were trimmed and FDR's "excess profits" tax was repealed, which meant that top marginal corporate tax rates effectively went to 38% from 90% after 1945.

The country essentially traded temporary jobs for a skyrocketing national debt. Many of those jobs had little or no value after the war.

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The End of the Great Depression

To many at the time, President Roosevelt was a hero. They believed that he cared deeply for the common man and that he was doing his best to end the Great Depression. Looking back, however, it is uncertain as to how much Roosevelt's New Deal programs helped to end the Great Depression. By all accounts, the New Deal programs eased the hardships of the Great Depression; however, the U.S. economy was still extremely bad by the end of the 1930s.

The major turn-around for the U.S. economy occurred after the bombing of Pearl Harbor and the entrance of the United States into World War II. Once the U.S. was involved in the war, both people and industry became essential to the war effort. Weapons, artillery, ships, and airplanes were needed quickly. Men were trained to become soldiers and the women were kept on the homefront to keep the factories going. Food needed to be grown for both the homefront and to send overseas.

It was ultimately the entrance of the U.S. into World War II that ended the Great Depression in the United States.

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It is clear that President Roosevelt’s actions to spend large amounts of money on public projects in the 30’s did cause short-term job increases, and many of the projects had a valuable long-term benefit, especially infrastructure development. However, these gains did not end the Great Depression, and may have made it more severe and last longer than otherwise.

There were three major factors that ended the Depression:

1. The destruction during the war of most of the industrial capacity of most of the major industrial powers (including in Europe and Japan), but not including the United States, left us with a near monopoly on production of major items. In fact, many of the factories greatly built up their capacity for the war, and the increased capacity was used to advantage after the war. This advantage lasted several decades, and gave us a long head start on establishing markets.
2. A pent up needs for automobiles, appliances, and many other items developed due to the manufacturing plants converting to manufacturing supplies for the war. After the war, the conversion back allowed huge amounts of sales of these items. This lasted long enough to establish many businesses solidly.
3. The GI bill allowed huge numbers of military personal to buy homes, and even more important, go to college. The large increase in well-educated people resulting had a major effect on the level of technology that could be developed. The middle class grew to a much larger percent of the population, and consumer buying increased greatly.

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TurtleDude said:

FDR was a "great president" in the sense he accomplished is goals. he also had the most deleterious impact on America since he pissed all over the concept of a limited government. He made the government a malignancy

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TurtleDude said:

that and wilson and LBJ were the three most harmful presidencies in US History

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Phys251 said:

WTF is "onanism"? If this is a reference to the biblical story, how the hell does it have anything to do with wanting presidents to die in office?

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Paschendale said:

Johnson should get more credit than he does for his strong support for civil rights.

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President Truman's civil rights program "is a farce and a sham--an effort to set up a police state in the guise of liberty. I am opposed to that program. I have voted against the so-called poll tax repeal bill ... I have voted against the so-called anti-lynching bill."
-- Rep. Lyndon B. Johnson

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Johnson guided the passage of the first civil rights bill since Reconstruction in 1957, in the belief that blacks would vote Republican in 1960 unless the Democrats gave them civil rights legislation.13 J ohnson also saw personal benefits; he believed throughout his career that if he wished to become a national leader, he would have to leave segregation behind.14

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Indeed, LBJ biographer Robert Caro notes that prior to 1957, Johnson “had never supported civil rights legislation—any civil rights legislation,” including anti-lynching legislation. His private behavior toward blacks was appalling. Robert Parker, LBJ’s longtime black employee and limousine chauffeur, claims that Johsnon blasted him daily with a blizzard of bigoted slurs. And even as LBJ was being praised by liberals for his appointment of Thurgood Marshall to the Supreme Court, behind closed doors LBJ’s cynical brand of “identity politics” became clear. As presidential historian Robert Dallek recounts, LBJ explained his decision to a staff member by saying, “"Son, when I appoint a nig—r to the court, I want everyone to know he's a nig—r."

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Joe Steel said:

Because the acted to promote and provide for the general welfare?

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"Fifty years ago, America began the War on Poverty," said Project 21 Co-Chairman Horace Cooper. "Having spent trillions with little to show for it, it's clearly time to declare a cease fire. After destroying generations of blacks and all but destroying the black family in total, it is time to try empowerment and personal responsibility."

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"President Johnson's War on Poverty, which was being formulated during the Kennedy Administration, is perhaps the only government institution that destroyed and devastated the black American upward mobility and family structure. As an assistant secretary of labor, Daniel Patrick Moynihan warned that the premise and concept of the War on Poverty would be detrimental to black America," said Project 21's Charles Butler. "The infamous split between the races that Moynihan predicted has created a deficit between white and black in key areas such as education, income and net worth. Yet we keep doing the same thing repeatedly hoping for a different result."

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tres borrachos said:

I rarely agree politically with you but I agree with much of this post.

The only major disagreement I have is with FDR. What he did to the Americans of Japanese descent is as shameful as any other act ever committed by a President.

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Joe Steel said:

Because the acted to promote and provide for the general welfare?

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NIMBY said:

And what would you have done as FDR? Just look at how your GOP treated Bergdahl's Father, calling him a Muslim and far worse. How GOPs have trashed their own in Idaho, the REDDEST state in the Union. Spare us your hindsight--war is hell and we were attacked .

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Joe Steel said:

Utter nonsense. "Limited government" is a myth created by misfits and malcontents and spread by stooges and shills. The US government was created to be a boundless source of service to the American People. FDR knew that and showed us how to do it.

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Unitedwestand13 said:

FDR and teddy Roosevelt

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DB20 said:

At least no one has decided to use this thread to prove what a total jackass they are by claiming Obama is the best ever.

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haymarket said:

his "goals" were getting the country through the Depression to better times and defeating fascism. How anybody can be against that and claim it was anything but tremendous is delusional.

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Jesse Booth said:

He does have a point, Borachos. I believe what FDR did was wrong too, but it's an understandable evil.

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