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Can we talk Doctors? A Discussion on the Academic Title

Can one be called a Doctor, no matter the setting, if they have a Doctrates?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 55.6%
  • No

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • Depends on the setting

    Votes: 6 33.3%

  • Total voters
    18
But I will say... in reality, its generally not worth it. Patients often dont hear it, they get confused, and calling yourself doctor really just tends to confuse things. In my experience, the people who do that are either totally insecure about their role or arrogant egotists.

And with a PhD, that gets even more confusing in the health care setting. The best advice (and the one that I've given to students for decades) is just dont bother with the title unless its a professional function. Students call me doctor, which is fine, and colleagues at formal conferences certainly do the same, or in introductions, but realistically, the only people who use the title in everyday use are boors. By everyday use, I mean introducing yourself as "Dr. and Mrs" to a neighbor, or at a social event, etc. And almost no PhDs outside of a health care field would EVER use the title doctor unless it was in a professional capacity.

I definitely understand the point you are making. And I really have no stake in it anyway since I have no degree, yet, even at the losest level. What sparked this op for me was reading the thread that I linked to in the op which is a nursing forum. Some nurses who have earned their Doctoral degree would like to indentify as the title they earned and there are some nurses who agree that it is pointless and confusing.

I just wanted to get the general publics opinion to see if they felt the same way.
 
Cos you're a specialist in a particular field of academia? Y'know, you're good at something and want to contribute further.

Gees, it was just a joke.
 
No, this has nothing to do with Obamacare so retract your claws.

I have for a very long time, as have many others, referred to physicians as "Doctors". However, as a college student who is now more aware of degree and the titles that come with them - I now know that a Doctor isn't necessarily a "Doctor" and a "Doctor" is not always, technically, a Doctor.

So here is a thread on a nursing site regarding their right as a nurse to refer to themselves as a Doctor if they have earned, through rigurous study and invested time, a doctrates in Nursing Practice ( A degree that allows them to act in some capacities as a physician)

Can you be called "Doctor" with a PhD in Nursing? - pg.5 | allnurses

An articulate quote from one Dr. Nurse -



Now this is a MD forum discussing the same topic. Skim through it if you like but the overall sentiments there are - "No only we physicians get to be called 'Doctors'"
Doctor of Nursing Practice? | Student Doctor Network

Now the title Ph.D predates the academic established field of Medical Practice. Being a Doctor of any field and referring to yourself as a Doctor was thing before physicians stepped into town. From what I can gather physicians in America, since outside of the US physicians are often referred to as just that physicians, started referring to themselves as Doctors to gain more repsect for a field of study that at the time wasn't being as respected as it should be.

Though physicians are skilled, vital, and educated people - I don't believe they have the right to monopolize the title Doctor, especially when many physicians do not have a Doctrates in the first place. Granted as language has evolved the word Doctor now includes physician as a definiton, but I don't believe that addition in meaning should trump the original and still applicable meaning of -



In a nutshell if you have a Doctrates in Economy - You are a doctor.
If you have a doctrates in English Literature - You are a doctor. And you have every right to refer to yourself by your earned titled.

On the job, they have the right to use their title if the organization allows them to do so. In a hospital setting, it would absolutely be misleading for RN Susan Smith, PhD to be introduce as Dr. Smith. Even though hospitals have uniforms that designate their rank, the general public isn't aware of those. I don't think a nurse should be able to call herself Dr. Smith in a medical setting.
 
If a person is having a heart attack and someone asks "is there a doctor in here" can you say that "yeah I am a doctor" if you have a pHD in chicano studies?
 
No, this has nothing to do with Obamacare so retract your claws.

I have for a very long time, as have many others, referred to physicians as "Doctors". However, as a college student who is now more aware of degree and the titles that come with them - I now know that a Doctor isn't necessarily a "Doctor" and a "Doctor" is not always, technically, a Doctor.

So here is a thread on a nursing site regarding their right as a nurse to refer to themselves as a Doctor if they have earned, through rigurous study and invested time, a doctrates in Nursing Practice ( A degree that allows them to act in some capacities as a physician)

Can you be called "Doctor" with a PhD in Nursing? - pg.5 | allnurses

An articulate quote from one Dr. Nurse -



Now this is a MD forum discussing the same topic. Skim through it if you like but the overall sentiments there are - "No only we physicians get to be called 'Doctors'"
Doctor of Nursing Practice? | Student Doctor Network

Now the title Ph.D predates the academic established field of Medical Practice. Being a Doctor of any field and referring to yourself as a Doctor was thing before physicians stepped into town. From what I can gather physicians in America, since outside of the US physicians are often referred to as just that physicians, started referring to themselves as Doctors to gain more repsect for a field of study that at the time wasn't being as respected as it should be.

Though physicians are skilled, vital, and educated people - I don't believe they have the right to monopolize the title Doctor, especially when many physicians do not have a Doctrates in the first place. Granted as language has evolved the word Doctor now includes physician as a definiton, but I don't believe that addition in meaning should trump the original and still applicable meaning of -



In a nutshell if you have a Doctrates in Economy - You are a doctor.
If you have a doctrates in English Literature - You are a doctor. And you have every right to refer to yourself by your earned titled.

Im a PA (Physician Assistant) working on my doctorate in medicine. Once I earn that (2 years left) I will have a doctorate in medicine. I will not be an MD and in the Clinical setting I will not be called Doctor. We wear the same white coat and are indistinguishable to most patients-but the assumption from patients is that doctor=md.

This actually isn't a big issue, but I find many people haven't considered the situation so when it comes up they scratch their heads.

In any non-clinical setting, doctor is appropriate.
 
ok. I disagree. Especailly if that person has a Ph.D in a field related to medicine and other clinical practice. I'm quite confident people like Psychologist would laugh at your assertion that they do not have the right to refer to themselves as a Doctor when their coursework and time invested in study is just as consuming and rigours, if not more (It's a higher ranking degree than md) as that of a physicians course work.

If I am recalling correctly the laws prohibit anyone from posing and falsely claiming they are a physician or Medical doctor - they don't prohibit you from using your earned title.

Not all psychologists have a doctorate, and they are not medical doctors-they are called psychologists not doctors when with patients. Psychiatrists yes.
 
Placating public ignorance is not an excuse to rob people of their title. It's also hyperbolic to assume that a Doctor of Pyschology would put themselves in a posistion where they are being confused with a physician.

Flippantly dimissing the amount of work required, and life time required, to earn a ph.d is absurd.

Its not dismissing anything. We want our patients to know who we are and not get any false impressions. Im also a Paramedic and get called an EMT or "ambulance driver" at times. Paramedics are much higher trained, but I understand the confusion so I let it go. To the people whos opinions I care about-my colleagues and family-they know.

I dont loose sleep about someone not calling me by a title earned by my education, its a non issue.
 
Okay. So how has that aided the patient in any way? Do you think it made them feel better or you feel better? Do you think medical doctors use the title in that setting because of personal gratification or because it's required?

I agree fully. A title is fine, but most people I know are over the title game.
 
Some, if not many, do. There's a difference in Ph.D and MD. The Ph.D being the larger of the two degrees. A Physician with a doctrates is held at a higher esteem than a Physician with only an MD. To earn a Ph.D you literally have to take the established knowledge in your field of study and add something new to it - your disseration. That's no easy feat.

This is not entirely true, I can speak for California.
 
But I will say... in reality, its generally not worth it. Patients often dont hear it, they get confused, and calling yourself doctor really just tends to confuse things. In my experience, the people who do that are either totally insecure about their role or arrogant egotists.

And with a PhD, that gets even more confusing in the health care setting. The best advice (and the one that I've given to students for decades) is just dont bother with the title unless its a professional function. Students call me doctor, which is fine, and colleagues at formal conferences certainly do the same, or in introductions, but realistically, the only people who use the title in everyday use are boors. By everyday use, I mean introducing yourself as "Dr. and Mrs" to a neighbor, or at a social event, etc. And almost no PhDs outside of a health care field would EVER use the title doctor unless it was in a professional capacity.

On this we agree.
 
If a person is having a heart attack and someone asks "is there a doctor in here" can you say that "yeah I am a doctor" if you have a pHD in chicano studies?

Dr. Joe Blow, MD.
Dr. John Doe, PhD.
I don't see the confusion.
If you have a doctorate you're probably aware of the difference.
 
Everyone, including physicians, should eschew the title "Dr." when outside of their own professional settings. Everyone, including PhDs and Physicians should feel encouraged to use the title 'Dr.' in their respective professional settings. It is mostly physicians that I see using the title 'Dr.' outside of their professional setting, though occasionally PhDs do as well.
 
Everyone, including physicians, should eschew the title "Dr." when outside of their own professional settings. Everyone, including PhDs and Physicians should feel encouraged to use the title 'Dr.' in their respective professional settings. It is mostly physicians that I see using the title 'Dr.' outside of their professional setting, though occasionally PhDs do as well.

Outside of medicine, I only see professors being called Dr.
 
I work with a lot of scientists that have pH D in chemistry. Everyone calls them by their first name. Never doctor. Same thing with people with PharmD.
 
Outside of medicine, I only see professors being called Dr.

Interesting. Socially, I have been introduced to physicians and they have been introduced with, say, "Please let me introduce you to Dr. Smith". They have not objected to this use of their title. I think they should correct the introduction, saying, "Please call me Mr. Smith, or John".

Your experience is different?
 
It's also an age thing. Younger physicians usually use their first names in social and even professional settings. Older docs never do.

I remember a neighbor 25 years ago that everyone knew as Dr. Miller. Everyone. He was a retired dentist. Very old school.
 
It's also an age thing. Younger physicians usually use their first names in social and even professional settings. Older docs never do.

I remember a neighbor 25 years ago that everyone knew as Dr. Miller. Everyone. He was a retired dentist. Very old school.

I keep remembering hangover. Paging dr.........
 
Interesting. Socially, I have been introduced to physicians and they have been introduced with, say, "Please let me introduce you to Dr. Smith". They have not objected to this use of their title. I think they should correct the introduction, saying, "Please call me Mr. Smith, or John".

Your experience is different?

It sounds like you were being formally introduced. What you refer to as a correction is being less formal-perhaps at an initial meeting thats not appropriate. Im on a first name basis with most MD's I work with, the few I am not, is because I dont know them (and they me). Frankly if they want to be called Dr, I dont really care.

True story, the only sticklers Ive encountered for using the title Dr were 3rd and rarely 4th year med students (where they are not yet physicians, and not even yet residents), who seem to want to use their newly earned title. Now that Im out of school, med students are not called dr by anyone. Again-they aren't yet MD's, they have a doctorate-most havent ever touched a patient. The title they have is "3rd year med student". With residents its first name if I know them, if not that will eventually get worked out. Most physicians are informal, frankly.
 
It's also an age thing. Younger physicians usually use their first names in social and even professional settings. Older docs never do.

I remember a neighbor 25 years ago that everyone knew as Dr. Miller. Everyone. He was a retired dentist. Very old school.

I call older Dr, more out of respect, like I'd refer to an older man as Mr. Typically we quickly become informal. Old school was different.

Technically Lawyers can be called doctor, but its a douchey move, and doesn't exactly class up the reputation lawyers have.
 
It sounds like you were being formally introduced. What you refer to as a correction is being less formal-perhaps at an initial meeting thats not appropriate. Im on a first name basis with most MD's I work with, the few I am not, is because I dont know them (and they me). Frankly if they want to be called Dr, I dont really care.

True story, the only sticklers Ive encountered for using the title Dr were 3rd and rarely 4th year med students (where they are not yet physicians, and not even yet residents), who seem to want to use their newly earned title. Now that Im out of school, med students are not called dr by anyone. Again-they aren't yet MD's, they have a doctorate-most havent ever touched a patient. The title they have is "3rd year med student". With residents its first name if I know them, if not that will eventually get worked out. Most physicians are informal, frankly.

I said "Socially". As in, outside of "Professionally". In any "Social" setting, everyone should be introduced without professional titles. Etiquette generally says different with regard to 'MDs', and I completely disagree.
 
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