View Poll Results: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

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Thread: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

  1. #241
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

  2. #242
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    The TEA party does not even address social issues. They want limited taxation and govt intrusion, and strict govt accountability. If you are saying that is equivocal to people who believe Gays and Apostates should be stoned, and that we should live under a legal system based on Islam you simply dont know what you are talking about.

    I've posted video's in this thread about the situation in Londonistan-YOU are going to figure this out long before any American liberal does.
    I'm no fan of radical Islam, and I think it's dangerous and cancerous. I also advocate the limitation of all religion in Western society, Islam foremost as a particularly repressive and anti-modern one.

    But I can't help at laugh at the truly, utterly absurd claims by some US conservatives about "Britainistan" or "Londonistan" or other silly (albeit amusing) references to the 'Islamisation' of Western Europe.

    If you were really up on the subject, you would know that 90% of all persons charged with hate speech and discrimination are Muslims, and both Cameron's government and the New Labour before it have taken huge steps to arrest any growing radical influence in the British Islamic community.

    I'll also point you to the recent enquiries in some London inner-city schools, in which police and government officials have identified and neutralised several radical Islamist teachers.

    So, all this is to say that where there is a potential problem, we deal with it.

    But overwhelmingly, the more important thing I'd like to let you know, having lived in London for a long, long time -- the idea that there are neighbourhoods that follow Sharia law or are patrolled by radical Islamic militias is nonsense.

    Seriously, it has zero basis in fact. The Daily Mail (essentially a tabloid notorious for running scaremonger articles about anything from killer broccoli to killer Pakistanis) periodically comes up with a story about a woman harassed in some bad part of London for wearing skimpy clothes, or some mosque that's teaching the kids to be suicide bombers. Inevitably, when you delve deeper into these stories, you realise that they're either A) Unsubstantiated or B) Grossly twisted for the purpose of selling newspapers.

    It probably occurs occasionally -- something like a woman walking home at night being harassed by a bunch of young men because she's in a short dress, or an outsider wandering into the wrong neighbourhood and getting mugged.

    I ask you -- is it any different in Chicago, New York, Dallas, Phoenix, Atlanta, LA, Detroit, Boston or Miami? Or any other US city I can name?

    Maybe I should start running headlines: "The increasing Africanisation of Chicagafrica! FOUR WHITE WOMEN RAPED BY RAMPAGING AFRICANS -- WHEN WILL THE GOVERNMENT STAND UP TO THE INCREASING BLACKIFICATION OF AMERICA?!"

    It's absurd. Socioeconomic factors are the cause here. The Pakistanis in inner-city London are poor and uneducated. They resort to crime, and feel oppressed by outsiders, particularly white Britons.

    They're not all going to grow up to be Osama bin Laden, as much as every black person in Chicago isn't going to grow up to be Malcolm X.

  3. #243
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    But her point about moderates standing by and doing much of nothing was spot on...
    Oh, yeah. I agree with that. Even if the vast majority of Muslims are moderate and don't support terrorist actions (which is true), there's still an element that does support violent extremism, and that can never be tolerated.

  4. #244
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad_Captandum View Post
    I have no idea why you're being so hostile .
    Hostility is not an unusual reaction to an snivelling,underhanded agenda based upon complete dishonesty,false equivalences,and the desire to deceive.

    Were you to attempt some honesty and integrity, instead, you might receive a different reaction.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Hostility is not an unusual reaction to an snivelling,underhanded agenda based upon complete dishonesty,false equivalences,and the desire to deceive.

    Were you to attempt some honesty and integrity, instead, you might receive a different reaction.
    No, it's not unusual, but it is somewhat juvenile. Look at you -- you're trying your hardest to annoy me, using words like 'snivelling', 'underhanded', and 'dishonesty'.

    But I have no stake in your misconceptions of my purpose, and so I do not become hostile. That's the only way to debate.

    Anyway, I'll say it once more, for all and sundry to hear:

    I oppose radical Islam. I oppose extreme Islam. I oppose jihadist Islam. I oppose radical Christianity. I oppose extreme Christianity. I oppose Christian crusades.

    I oppose the Salafists. I oppose the Wahhabists. I oppose the English Defence League. I oppose the Tea Party. I oppose the Ayatollah in Iran. I oppose the Likud party in the Knesset. I oppose Al-Qaeda. I oppose the Islamic State in Syria and the Levant (ISIS). I oppose the National Rifle Association. I oppose radical feminists. I oppose the Westboro Baptist Church. I oppose the Muslim Brotherhood. I oppose Hamas.

    And so many more.

    They're all radical -- though not, of course, to the same degree. Al-Qaeda is of course far more radical than the Tea Party. But they're all radical, and they're all making the world a less stable and prosperous place. They're all awful.

    How could I possibly make myself any clearer to you?

  6. #246
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad_Captandum View Post
    Seriously, where did you learn to speak English? This is some ballistic grammar and punctuation I see.

    Anyway, I'm perfectly willing to call the Muslim Brotherhood, the Tea Party, the Salafists, the Westboro Baptist Church, the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia, Hezbollah, the Israeli settlers and the NRA extremists. I think they're all extremist nutbags and their influence needs to be limited.

    I have no idea why you're being so hostile -- it's almost comical. I'm largely agreeing with the basic statement (if not with you, because you don't appear to have a point) that radical Islam is dangerous and must be curbed. I'm totally behind that.

    I'm just not totally behind demonising 300 million people who are beyond any shadow of a doubt NOT all extremists.
    Ok so the tea party is extremist?

    What about the left who will say that I'm engaging in a "war on women" and that I hate women and want to control them for no other reason than that I am pro-life. All I have to say to a leftist is that I'm pro-life, nothing else and that is the response they give to me. they know nothing at all about me other than I disagree with their views of abortion yet they know for a fact that I want to control women. They don't know nor do they care that I am a husband and father who does everything possible to make my wife and daughters lives happy and safe. Nope.....all they need to know is I don't share their opinion on the abortion issue so I hate women and want to control them.

    That's not extreme?

  7. #247
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad_Captandum View Post
    How could I possibly make myself any clearer to you?


    Well,for starters, you could stop lyng through your teeth about the number of muslims who hold beliefs that you would consider extreme if you applied the same standards to them as you do to any other people.

    There would, indeed,be hundreds upon hundreds of millions if you only had the integrity necessary to judge all by the same standards.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  8. #248
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    This is beautiful-you think that the TEA party and the NRA somehow equate to "extremist nutbags". Im by no means a fan of Westboro, but they aren't even the junior varsity version of what is ubiquitous in Islam. Probably just in YOUR town alone. Get your bearings, mate-you are lost.
    It amazes me,sometimes, how uneducated, dishonest people can get so carried away by their dogmatism that they would resort to such idiotic comparisons. If the tea party are extremists for their conservative beliefs, then over a billion Muslims must be extremists. If the Landover Baptist is an extremist organization for their opinions about gay people, there are hundreds and hundreds of millions of extremist Muslims. If a religious sect in the west shuns apostates,these same chittering parrots would call them extremist and then in the next breath call muslims "moderate" who would support KILLING apostates.

    I guess what bothers me more than anything about these profoundly illiberal apolgists for the antithesis of liberalism is that they do nothing but contribute what amounts to rhetorical pollution to the discussion. Since they are on the left (usually the authoritarian hard left), they are often confused with liberals, and the voices of actual liberals cannot be heard above the cacophany of their polluted views. People think these automatic defenses of pre-enlightenment belief systems IS the sign of a liberal, and that the lies, the mealy-mouthed double talk and the false equivalences that constitute their stock in trade is smehow a liberal characteristic. It isn't. Their duplicity is not the product of a world view that is liberal. It is the product of a world view that is profoundly ANTI liberal, so thorough is their support for the misogyny, the patriarchy, the theocratic ideology,the hatred of gays, and the enormous disregard for humanist values.

    Simply put --they would not produce such a huge,stinking pile of sophistry to defend these archly regressive values if there was even the tiniest hint of liberalsim in their world view.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  9. #249
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Please name all the domestic Christian terrorists who have killed someone.
    Frazier Glenn Cross, Wade Michael Page, Shawna Forde, Albert Gaxiola, Jason Bush, Scott Roeder, and many others.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    All radicals have Some terrorist sympathy for Obvious reason/definition: rooting for Islam v the West/Christians/Jews/Hindus.
    Nonetheless, we WERE Talking about the term 'radicals', which Ms Gabriel conservatively estimates at 25%.
    That makes no sense. There is a difference between supporting fundamentalist Islamic values, just like how people support fundamentalist Christian values here, and supporting violence and terrorism as a means to defend their values. Many people in believe in the values of western civilization, but would prefer not to go to war to defend those values. And if you watch the Young Turks video someone posted earlier, it was mentioned by one of the interviewees that there were cases where Gabriel defined radical as praying more than five times a day.

    We keep having apologists for Worldwide Islamic violence do the redirect/Deflection to America alone which is only maybe 2% Muslim.
    (So one can assume the debate is Over on the Gabriel claim as it is now UNcontested)

    As to your Left Wing article from 'Alternet' it's Misleading/untrue.
    Only hundreds of arrests have prevented more Islamic acts of terror.
    Denying the reliability of a source because it doesn't back up your argument is not an actual argument. Try again.

    That would be 50 Foiled plots in/against America since 9/11.
    50 Terror Attacks Foiled Since 9/11
    Not including 'Successful' plots like Fort Hood.
    Ouch.
    And since we Are talking Worldwide, not just the USA...
    Several Hundred Die Every Week, and 1500-2000 Die Every month in the Name of Islam.
    These are Only crimes in the Name of Islam.

    [url]http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/14/opinion/bergen-sterman-kansas-shooting/ Here's another source. 21 terrorists motivated by Al Qaeda and Islamic extremism versus 34 domestic terrorists affiliating with right-wing extremism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Are you really so profoundly naive as to think that a person's self-identification is what is important here and not what they actually think?

    You quote a finite statistic based upon only one trait, which of course means that you are thus defining as not radical at all such notions as killing people who leave Islam ,killing of homosexuals, and amputations for minor crimes.
    Someone's fundamentalist views, regardless of what religion they are fundamentalist towards, are not relevant if they do not support terrorist groups. The statistic I quoted was based on support of Al Qaeda and identification with Islamic radicalism in regards to use of terrorism in defending their religion. If they hold views such as the ones you listed above, I going to disagree with them, but that's not relevant to terrorism whatsoever. There are also a minority of Christians who would like to homosexuality criminalized, but I'm not going to write off Christianity because of that minority.

    If Christians or Jews were running around saying people should be killed if they stopped following Christianity or Judaism, should we also assume you would defend them in equal measure? After all,you have now established that these attitudes are not in the least bit radical to you.
    No, because Christians are doing this, and they're doing it at a more frequent rate than Muslims. Neither religion is barbaric because of this minority. What is so hard about that to understand?

    If defending knuckle-dragging views that haven't changed in 1500 years is the sign of "progressive" politics, I'd hate to think what your politics must have been before they progressed.
    You seem to think that I am defending terrorists themselves. That is not true. I am talking about Muslims who do not support terrorism, which are the vast majority of them. It's called allowing freedom of thought and association and not judging an entire religion based on a tiny minority within the religion's viewpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You won't get argument from me about Al-Qaeda, but support for Al-Qaeda is different than support for Islamist groups.



    Ah, no, not the same as "A Christian Winning Here".

    Let's say that Mike Huckabee had run on a platform of enforcing Christian morality on the populace, Amending the Constitution to conform to the Bible, and encouraging the death sentence for apostasy or insulting Christianity. And won. That would be closer to what it would look like if we were to try to build a parallel between the Islamists who win elections and a Christian winning here.
    That is false because I am talking about people who identify with Islam and win elections, not Islam radicals who want to shove the Quran down the throats. The Pakistani government is not the kind of government you are referring to. And as I have previously mentioned, persecuting those who do not identify with Christianity is not exactly absent from the U.S.

  10. #250
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    Someone's fundamentalist views, regardless of what religion they are fundamentalist towards, are not relevant if they do not support terrorist groups.
    What truly idiotic sophistry.

    You could have just said right off the bat that you would attempt any dishonest rationalization at your disposal in order to obscure the truth.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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