View Poll Results: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

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Thread: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

  1. #211
    onomatopoeic
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    In the grand scheme of things they're not relevant to Islam. Do you actually believe Islam is at it's core and evil religion because 10% of its followers hold radical beliefs?

    True, but one can always try.
    So Even in a very narrow sense, Only support for al Qaeda, we have 10% of Muslims.
    Almost Halfway there without even getting to the Bulk/Main body!
    Is it "radical" to want Stoning to death for Apostates? Adulterers? Gays?
    Penalties for anyone Criticizing Islam?
    Radical to want a worldwide Caliphate even if you don't explode or directly support someone who does?
    Sunni are killing Shias (and lesser extent reverse) with the help of Sunni countries' governments. Radical?

    Care to take a shot? Amadeus WHIFFED 3 times.

    The problem here is the use/meaning of 'radical'.
    Certainly 25% of Muslims aren't "terrorists" .. the old strawman we see in this string and in the rigged youngturk youtube in the post above mine.
    Terrorists would be under 1%.

    But how many are Fundamentalist? Literalist? Is that "radical?
    If we use those terms the way we use it on Christians it would be a healthy Majority.
    The same healthy Majority that supports Sharia worldwide and elected the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, with the more "Radical" Salafis second. Between them 70%.
    Salafis, Coincidentally (Not), won 25% in 'Moderate' Egypt!

    Do you consider the MB "radical"? Salafis?
    So her claim is Not at all off base.
    Many Muslims and Muslim govts financially support terrorists radicals: Saudi, Pakistan, Hamas charities, etc.

    Christians are persecuted and Cleansed in Most Muslim countries by their peoples AND Governments.

    So 'radical'? Would you call Falwell/Robertson Radical? Because I would say about 2/3++ of Muslims are at least that 'radical'.
    Then, of course, you have the problem of Literal or Radical to What?

    Being Literal to the NT would cause what counterproductive behavior exactly? Teaching creationism instead of evolution?
    Being literal to the Koran, OTOH, has many Violent repercussions we do see worldwide.
    People die Every day in the NAME of Islam/it's scripture.
    What would Falwell proscribe for Adultery, Counseling? While a Majority of Muslims support Stoning to Death for Adultery as prescribed by Sharia.

    A Christian Fundamentalist is a missionary, a Muslim Fundamentalist Kills him.
    Last edited by mbig; 06-26-14 at 05:42 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  2. #212
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    So Even in a very narrow sense, Only support for al Qaeda, we have 10% of Muslims.
    Almost Halfway there without even getting to the Bulk/Main body!
    Is it "radical" to want Stoning to death for Apostates? Adulterers? Gays?
    Penalties for anyone Criticizing Islam?
    Radical to want a worldwide Caliphate even if you don't explode or directly support someone who does?
    Sunni are killing Shias (and lesser extent reverse) with the help of Sunni countries' governments. Radical?

    Care to take a shot? Amadeus WHIFFED 3 times.

    The problem here is the use/meaning of 'radical'.
    Certainly 25% of Muslims aren't "terrorists" .. the old strawman we see in this string and in the rigged youngturk youtube in the post above mine.
    Terrorists would be under 1%.

    But how many are Fundamentalist? Literalist? Is that "radical?
    If we use those terms the way we use it on Christians it would be a healthy Majority.
    The same healthy Majority that supports Sharia worldwide and elected the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, with the more "Radical" Salafis second. Between them 70%.
    Salafis, Coincidentally (Not), won 25% in 'Moderate' Egypt!

    Do you consider the MB "radical"? Salafis?
    So her claim is Not at all off base.
    Many Muslims and Muslim govts financially support terrorists radicals: Saudi, Pakistan, Hamas charities, etc.

    Christians are persecuted and Cleansed in Most Muslim countries by their peoples AND Governments.

    So 'radical'? Would you call Falwell/Robertson Radical? Because I would say about 2/3++ of Muslims are at least that 'radical'.
    Then, of course, you have the problem of Literal or Radical to What?

    Being Literal to the NT would cause what counterproductive behavior exactly? Teaching creationism instead of evolution?
    Being literal to the Koran, OTOH, has many Violent repercussions we do see worldwide.
    People die Every day in the NAME of Islam/it's scripture.
    What would Falwell proscribe for Adultery, Counseling? While a Majority of Muslims support Stoning to Death for Adultery as prescribed by Sharia.

    A Christian Fundamentalist is a missionary, a Muslim Fundamentalist Kills him.
    I'm talking about radical in the sense that they have a favorable opinion of a terrorist group. If someone wants to hold theocratic beliefs, regarding of the religion they subscribe to, that's their right, even though I strongly disagree with it. Holding fundamentalist beliefs as a Muslim is not relevant to terrorism at all, because as you said, less than 1% of Muslims are actually terrorists. Your statement that you ended with is also false, since as I mentioned earlier, you are more likely to be killed by a member of the radical right than an Islamic terrorist. And the leading party in Pakistan is a very "pro-American" party, and the U.S. government is willing to go miles to defend the oil of the Saudi Arabians. Those two are hardly radical governments.

  3. #213
    onomatopoeic
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    I'm talking about radical in the sense that they have a favorable opinion of a terrorist group. If someone wants to hold theocratic beliefs, regarding of the religion they subscribe to, that's their right, even though I strongly disagree with it. Holding fundamentalist beliefs as a Muslim is not relevant to terrorism at all, because as you said, less than 1% of Muslims are actually terrorists. Your statement that you ended with is also false, since as I mentioned earlier, you are more likely to be killed by a member of the radical right than an Islamic terrorist. And the leading party in Pakistan is a very "pro-American" party, and the U.S. government is willing to go miles to defend the oil of the Saudi Arabians. Those two are hardly radical governments.
    Untrue.
    One must hold fundamentalist beliefs to be a terrorist and, you show me more and more fervent fundamentalists, I'll show you More terrorists.
    The two are Inter-related and highly correlated.

    As to Saudis, we are necessary partners. That doesn't make them less Radical, the term at hand.
    Confiscating Bibles, arresting those carrying them Executing the above mentioned classes as well as recently making Atheism a crime is RADICAL.
    Saudis/Sunnis are also supporting ISIS' slaughtering Shias in Iraq/Syria... as well as Christians being Persecuted and Cleansed in just about Every Muslim country!

    And the POINT/Topic/OP:
    We were NOT just talking Terrorism, nor OBVIOUSLY was Gabriel in the OP.

    Radicals compromise well more than 25% IMO and it has been demonstrated throughout with Poll numbers etc.
    Last edited by mbig; 06-26-14 at 06:05 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  4. #214
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    In the grand scheme of things they're not relevant to Islam. Do you actually believe Islam is at it's core and evil religion because 10% of its followers hold radical beliefs?



    True, but one can always try.
    Being relevant to islam isn't the issue. Their relevance to western civilization is the issue. Do you believe that any religion that is as repressive to its women as islam is is NOT evil? An islamic man beheading his own wife for infidelity real or imagined, or selling his daughter with no malice toward the west would not be considered 'radical.' Those things are just business as usual. And those things are not 'evil.' Groovy.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

  5. #215
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Untrue.
    One must hold fundamentalist beliefs to be a terrorist and, you show me more and more fervent fundamentalists, I'll show you More terrorists.
    The two are Inter-related and highly correlated.

    As to Saudis, we are necessary partners. That doesn't make them less Radical, the term at hand.
    Confiscating Bibles, arresting those carrying them Executing the above mentioned classes as well as recently making Atheism a crime is RADICAL.
    Saudis/Sunnis are also supporting ISIS' slaughtering Shias in Iraq/Syria... as well as Christians being Persecuted and Cleansed in just about Every Muslim country!


    And the POINT/Topic/OP:
    We were NOT just talking Terrorism, nor OBVIOUSLY was Gabriel in the OP.
    She clearly differentiated/specified not terrorists.
    THAT was the issue and it is now OVER.

    Radicals compromise well more than 25% IMO and it has bee demonstrated throughout with Poll numbers etc.
    Are you saying people that oppose secularism, support criminalizing homosexuality, etc., must be terrorists? This was a panel on Islamic terrorism, not the beliefs of Muslims whose views may be considered fundamentalist, but not terrorist sympathizers. Do you consider this to be radical as well? Are the governments of Arkansas, Maryland, the Carolinas, Mississippi, Tennessee, and Texas radical terrorist sympathizing governments? No, they are not, even though they place similar restrictions on atheism as middle eastern countries. Fundamentalism=/=terrorist sympathy. We can argue about how many Muslims are radical fundamentalists all day, but if they don't have terrorist sympathies, they're not the kind of radicalism we should be worried about.

  6. #216
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    So Even in a very narrow sense, Only support for al Qaeda, we have 10% of Muslims.
    Almost Halfway there without even getting to the Bulk/Main body!
    Is it "radical" to want Stoning to death for Apostates? Adulterers? Gays?
    Penalties for anyone Criticizing Islam?
    Radical to want a worldwide Caliphate even if you don't explode or directly support someone who does?
    Sunni are killing Shias (and lesser extent reverse) with the help of Sunni countries' governments. Radical?

    Care to take a shot? Amadeus WHIFFED 3 times.

    The problem here is the use/meaning of 'radical'.
    Certainly 25% of Muslims aren't "terrorists" .. the old strawman we see in this string and in the rigged youngturk youtube in the post above mine.
    Terrorists would be under 1%.

    But how many are Fundamentalist? Literalist? Is that "radical?
    If we use those terms the way we use it on Christians it would be a healthy Majority.
    The same healthy Majority that supports Sharia worldwide and elected the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, with the more "Radical" Salafis second. Between them 70%.
    Salafis, Coincidentally (Not), won 25% in 'Moderate' Egypt!

    Do you consider the MB "radical"? Salafis?
    So her claim is Not at all off base.
    Many Muslims and Muslim govts financially support terrorists radicals: Saudi, Pakistan, Hamas charities, etc.

    Christians are persecuted and Cleansed in Most Muslim countries by their peoples AND Governments.

    So 'radical'? Would you call Falwell/Robertson Radical? Because I would say about 2/3++ of Muslims are at least that 'radical'.
    Then, of course, you have the problem of Literal or Radical to What?

    Being Literal to the NT would cause what counterproductive behavior exactly? Teaching creationism instead of evolution?
    Being literal to the Koran, OTOH, has many Violent repercussions we do see worldwide.
    People die Every day in the NAME of Islam/it's scripture.
    What would Falwell proscribe for Adultery, Counseling? While a Majority of Muslims support Stoning to Death for Adultery as prescribed by Sharia.

    A Christian Fundamentalist is a missionary, a Muslim Fundamentalist Kills him.
    The things you name are just part of the religion and governed by sharia law. They would not be considered 'radical.'
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

  7. #217
    onomatopoeic
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    Are you saying people that oppose secularism, support criminalizing homosexuality, etc., must be terrorists?
    Is this a confused take or intentional deflection?
    Again, one does Not have to be a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer to be a Radical.
    And also again, Your poll was very limited in scope and still got 10%.
    Many more support violence in the Name of Islam.


    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat
    This was a panel on Islamic terrorism, not the beliefs of Muslims whose views may be considered fundamentalist, but not terrorist sympathizers. Do you consider this to be radical as well? Are the governments of Arkansas, Maryland, the Carolinas, Mississippi, Tennessee, and Texas radical terrorist sympathizing governments? No, they are not, even though they place similar restrictions on atheism as middle eastern countries. Fundamentalism=/=terrorist sympathy. We can argue about how many Muslims are Radical fundamentalists all day, but if they don't have terrorist sympathies, they're not the kind of radicalism we should be worried about.
    See above.

    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Are_the_Ov...s#Case_Studies
    [......]
    Case Studies
    Pakistan


    I previously did some number-crunching for "extremists" in Pakistan after it was reported that a December 2010 Pew poll found that even today “The majority of Muslims would favor changing current laws in their countries to 'allow stoning as punishment for adultery, hand amputation for theft, and death for those who convert from Islam as their religion'”.[2][3]

    Using Pakistan as an example, I noted that the poll found that 76% of Pakistanis agree apostates are to be killed. In a country with a population of 172,800,000[4] (96% of whom are Muslim)[5] that would be more than 126 million people in a single country. Conversely only a mere 13% of Muslims opposed killing apostates.

    So, according to indisputable facts, Muslim "extremists" are not a "tiny minority", but form the vast majority of the population in Pakistan and some of the other countries polled. In fact, the number of "extremists" in Pakistan alone form about 8% of the world's entire 1.5 billion Muslim population. We reach this shocking figure even before we take into consideration the possibility that a lot of those Pakistanis who disagree with killing apostates may still support jihad.

    Indonesia

    Over in "moderate" Indonesia,
    a survey conducted from 2001 to March 2006 found 43.5% of Muslim respondents were "ready to Wage War for their faith" and 40% would use Violence against those blaspheming Islam.[6] 85%, or 200 million, of the country's 230 million population are Muslims. This means approximately 87 million Indonesians, or more than 4 out of every 10 Muslim there, is a violent Islamic "extremist".

    Note that this massive figure is not for those Indonesian Muslims who simply support a violent interpretation of Islam, but for those Muslims who are actually prepared to act on them by committing violence against others. If we were to know the number of those who simply support jihad but are not prepared to join in themselves, like in Pakistan, the "extremists" would most certainly be in the majority. And again, this is without taking into consideration that many of the Indonesians who support stoning adulterers to death [42%][3] or killing apostates [30%][3] may not support jihad at all, but would also clearly have to be labeled as "extremists" for holding such barbaric views.

    United Kingdom


    The picture is not much brighter when we learn the views of young Western-born Muslims who often tend to be more "extremist" than their older Eastern-born counterparts. For example; in the United Kingdom, where 1 out of every 3 British Muslim aged 16 to 24 agree that apostates should be put to death,[7] and where only 3% of all Muslims are "consistently pro-freedom of speech".[8]
    [.......]
    Last edited by mbig; 06-26-14 at 06:24 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  8. #218
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Being relevant to islam isn't the issue. Their relevance to western civilization is the issue. Do you believe that any religion that is as repressive to its women as islam is is NOT evil? An islamic man beheading his own wife for infidelity real or imagined, or selling his daughter with no malice toward the west would not be considered 'radical.' Those things are just business as usual. And those things are not 'evil.' Groovy.
    See the link I posted for mbig. Despite the radical, sometimes frightening views of some Muslims, they are not relevant to Islam or to our "national security" (hate that term), as the fact that we face more issues from nationalist radicals here at home.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Is this a confused take or intentional deflection?
    Again, one does Not have to be a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer to be a Radical.
    And also again, Your poll was very limited in scope and still got 10%.
    Many more support violence in the Name of Islam.


    See above.

    Are the Overwhelming Majority of Muslims Peaceful Moderates? - WikiIslam
    [......]
    Case Studies
    Pakistan


    I previously did some number-crunching for "extremists" in Pakistan after it was reported that a December 2010 Pew poll found that even today “The majority of Muslims would favor changing current laws in their countries to 'allow stoning as punishment for adultery, hand amputation for theft, and death for those who convert from Islam as their religion'”.[2][3]

    Using Pakistan as an example, I noted that the poll found that 76% of Pakistanis agree apostates are to be killed. In a country with a population of 172,800,000[4] (96% of whom are Muslim)[5] that would be more than 126 million people in a single country. Conversely only a mere 13% of Muslims opposed killing apostates.

    So, according to indisputable facts, Muslim "extremists" are not a "tiny minority", but form the vast majority of the population in Pakistan and some of the other countries polled. In fact, the number of "extremists" in Pakistan alone form about 8% of the world's entire 1.5 billion Muslim population. We reach this shocking figure even before we take into consideration the possibility that a lot of those Pakistanis who disagree with killing apostates may still support jihad.

    Indonesia

    Over in "moderate" Indonesia, a survey conducted from 2001 to March 2006 found 43.5% of Muslim respondents were "ready to Wage War for their faith" and 40% would use Violence against those blaspheming Islam.[6] 85%, or 200 million, of the country's 230 million population are Muslims. This means approximately 87 million Indonesians, or more than 4 out of every 10 Muslim there, is a violent Islamic "extremist".


    Note that this massive figure is not for those Indonesian Muslims who simply support a violent interpretation of Islam, but for those Muslims who are actually prepared to act on them by committing violence against others. If we were to know the number of those who simply support jihad but are not prepared to join in themselves, like in Pakistan, the "extremists" would most certainly be in the majority. And again, this is without taking into consideration that many of the Indonesians who support stoning adulterers to death [42%][3] or killing apostates [30%][3] may not support jihad at all, but would also clearly have to be labeled as "extremists" for holding such barbaric views.

    United Kingdom

    The picture is not much brighter when we learn the views of young Western-born Muslims who often tend to be more "extremist" than their older Eastern-born counterparts. For example; in the United Kingdom, where 1 out of every 3 British Muslim aged 16 to 24 agree that apostates should be put to death,[7] and where only 3% of all Muslims are "consistently pro-freedom of speech".
    [8]
    [.......]
    If they are a radical in terms of their beliefs, but not a terrorist sympathizer, why are they a concern of terrorism? And despite all this focus on radical Muslims who do not even have terrorist sympathies, you are more likely to be killed by a domestic terrorist subscribing to Christianity than a terrorist subscribing to Islam? I cannot emphasize this point enough.

  9. #219
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    See the link I posted for mbig. Despite the radical, sometimes frightening views of some Muslims, they are not relevant to Islam or to our "national security" (hate that term), as the fact that we face more issues from nationalist radicals here at home.



    If they are a radical in terms of their beliefs, but not a terrorist sympathizer, why are they a concern of terrorism? And despite all this focus on radical Muslims who do not even have terrorist sympathies, you are more likely to be killed by a domestic terrorist subscribing to Christianity than a terrorist subscribing to Islam? I cannot emphasize this point enough.

    Please name all the domestic Christian terrorists who have killed someone.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

  10. #220
    onomatopoeic
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    Re: Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    ...

    If they are a radical in terms of their beliefs, but not a terrorist sympathizer, why are they a concern of terrorism? And despite all this focus on radical Muslims who do not even have terrorist sympathies, you are more likely to be killed by a domestic terrorist subscribing to Christianity than a terrorist subscribing to Islam? I cannot emphasize this point enough.
    All radicals have Some terrorist sympathy for Obvious reason/definition: rooting for Islam v the West/Christians/Jews/Hindus.
    Nonetheless, we WERE Talking about the term 'radicals', which Ms Gabriel conservatively estimates at 25%.

    We keep having apologists for Worldwide Islamic violence do the redirect/Deflection to America alone which is only maybe 2% Muslim.
    (So one can assume the debate is Over on the Gabriel claim as it is now UNcontested)

    As to your Left Wing article from 'Alternet' it's Misleading/untrue.
    Only hundreds of arrests have prevented more Islamic acts of terror.

    That would be 50 Foiled plots in/against America since 9/11.
    50 Terror Attacks Foiled Since 9/11
    Not including 'Successful' plots like Fort Hood.
    Ouch.
    And since we Are talking Worldwide, not just the USA...
    Several Hundred Die Every Week, and 1500-2000 Die Every month in the Name of Islam.
    These are Only crimes in the Name of Islam.

    [url]http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks
    2014.06.26 (Buulobarde, Somalia) - An al-Shabaab grenade attack on a hotel leaves 2 dead.
    2014.06.25 (Abuja, Nigeria) - Islamists detonate a bomb in the middle of a shopping district, slaughtering nearly Two Dozen shoppers.
    2014.06.24 (Witu, Kenya) - 11 people are hacked and shot to death at close range in a suspected al-Shabaab attack.
    2014.06.24 (Spinwam, Pakistan) - 3 others are murdered by a Ansarul Mujahideen suicide bomber.
    2014.06.24 (Kabamu, Nigeria) - 21 people are reported dead after an attack by Muslim terrorists.
    2014.06.24 (Pattani, Thailand) - A Buddhist man is shot and set on Fire by Muslim terrorists.

    [... Scroll to your hearts content for just the last 30 DAYS ...]

    Quote Originally Posted by thereligionofpeace.com
    Monthly Jihad Report
    May, 2014

    Jihad Attacks: 233
    Countries: 26
    Allah Akbars: 38 (Suicide bombings)
    Dead Bodies: 1883

    Critically Injured: 2137
    Last edited by mbig; 06-26-14 at 07:07 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

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