• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Back to Iraq?

Back to Iraq?

  • Yes, with some amount of troops.

    Votes: 2 5.6%

  • No, we'll stay out indefinitely.

    Votes: 16 44.4%

  • We'll do minimalist advisers, air force and/or drone attacks.

    Votes: 10 27.8%

  • It's a watch and wait situation for now.

    Votes: 8 22.2%

  • Other (explain).

    Votes: 3 8.3%
  • Total voters
    36
CRUE CAB said:
Subjective on the "created this problem". Saddam you find no fault with?
Click to expand...

Saddam, bastard that he was, did not warrant our reckless actions. And no, it's not all that subjective. Some actions have very predictable results. And these were predicted. Many had foresight long before Bush lost his mind and invaded.
 
Boo Radley said:
Saddam, bastard that he was, did not warrant our reckless actions. And no, it's not all that subjective. Some actions have very predictable results. And these were predicted. Many had foresight long before Bush lost his mind and invaded.
Click to expand...
Didn't lose his mind, it was well though out. But he should have stopped at "mission accomplished" instead of go on a nation building binge.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Didn't lose his mind, it was well though out. But he should have stopped at "mission accomplished" instead of go on a nation building binge.
Click to expand...

No, he lost his mind. He made OBL profit, gave cause to recruit others, destabilized Iraq, and made possible the real life training of those who will kill for decades to come. It was a foolish decision by the decider.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, he lost his mind. He made OBL profit, gave cause to recruit others, destabilized Iraq, and made possible the real life training of those who will kill for decades to come. It was a foolish decision by the decider.
Click to expand...

Lets just say you have a point. People are still being killed in Iraq and Obama is president. Right now nothing that is happening has much if anything to do with Bush.
Had there been no US and coalition intervention, there would be killing on a grand scale in Iraq. Just Saddam and his sons would be doing the killing.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Lets just say you have a point. People are still being killed in Iraq and Obama is president. Right now nothing that is happening has much if anything to do with Bush.
Had there been no US and coalition intervention, there would be killing on a grand scale in Iraq. Just Saddam and his sons would be doing the killing.
Click to expand...

The damage has been done. Doubling down on the same mistake just makes things worse in the long run. You can't maintain public support for this in any democracy, and the effort creates even more of the same.

And no, as I've shown many times before, the large scale killing had been long done. We waited until it was done and added injury to injury. We did Iraqis no favor by invading.
 
Boo Radley said:
The damage has been done. Doubling down on the same mistake just makes things worse in the long run. You can't maintain public support for this in any democracy, and the effort creates even more of the same.

And no, as I've shown many times before, the large scale killing had been long done. We waited until it was done and added injury to injury. We did Iraqis no favor by invading.
Click to expand...
The Iraqi's were not the only reason why we invaded.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
We have many unfunded wars, including the endless wars on poverty and drugs. It is interesting how you choose to determine what causes the deficit. ;)
Click to expand...

it's not completely for the sake of the deficit. it's mostly to make war extremely unpalatable for all taxpayers so that they are even more reluctant to support it.
 
If you want to go to Iraq you have my permission to go there right now.




But the USA need to stay away from that place unless an attack is launched on the USA from there, In which case we need to do whatever we have to do.
 
Last edited:
CRUE CAB said:
Takes oil to make gas. Takes gas to run my car. My car makes me happy.
Click to expand...

i like cars, too. and Jeeps, and motorcycles. i don't like that we are beholden to every tinpot dictator who happens to be sitting on a pool of oil. i also recognize that oil is a finite resource, and that we will eventually have to rethink our transportation energy model. i'd rather do it now than at the last minute.
 
Helix said:
it's not completely for the sake of the deficit. it's mostly to make war extremely unpalatable for all taxpayers so that they are even more reluctant to support it.
Click to expand...

The same applies to the war on poverty or the war on drugs. The idea that social spending for income redistribution schemes or stimulus projects is perfectly fine to fund using debt but that national defense is not is quite a stretch. I am no fan of the US playing world policeman or to engage in nation building/regime change but trying to make different funding rules for specific federal powers is not likely to happen. I disagree with the idea of mandatory/discretionary federal spending as it is. Our congress critters ignore the "pay as you go" law/rule and now simply declare any excess spending as being for "crisis" or "emergency" purposes.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The same applies to the war on poverty or the war on drugs. The idea that social spending for income redistribution schemes or stimulus projects is perfectly fine to fund using debt but that national defense is not is quite a stretch. I am no fan of the US playing world policeman or to engage in nation building/regime change but trying to make different funding rules for specific federal powers is not likely to happen. I disagree with the idea of mandatory/discretionary federal spending as it is. Our congress critters ignore the "pay as you go" law/rule and now simply declare any excess spending as being for "crisis" or "emergency" purposes.
Click to expand...

i'm fine with social safety nets. the WoD as it stands, not so much.
 
Helix said:
i like cars, too. and Jeeps, and motorcycles. i don't like that we are beholden to every tinpot dictator who happens to be sitting on a pool of oil. i also recognize that oil is a finite resource, and that we will eventually have to rethink our transportation energy model. i'd rather do it now than at the last minute.
Click to expand...
We have enough for my life time.
 
US Conservative said:
I think Israel is much more in danger of a nuke than we are (even getting on close would be hard, but not impossible), but the bigger point is they would if they could. AQ actually captured a major airport in Pakistan recently, a nuclear power.

My solution (of course Im no expert) would be a fighting force minimally supported by the US-one that fights the way arabs do-meaning like how assad and saddam and Iran fight-without the PC rules of engagement of western nations. This is proven effective against terrorists, and we dont take the casualties or headlines of bombing an entire city block. The us presence would be behind this force, mainly to provide intelligence and air cover, and for maintaining a presence AFTER areas are cleared by the Iraqi military. We should dissolve shia militias, which would diminish fears of reprisal by sunni civilians while minimizing Iran's presence. If Iran wants to fight, let them do it through Syria. Our timelines should be based on outcomes, not a calendar. And frankly, I think we should do the same in Afghanistan.

None of this is easy. None of this will be entirely safe for anyone, including us. None of this is politically popular (until the next attack here in the US). But we need to be up front and clear in our goals and own it-because this problem is enveloping the world and WILL get worse. Id rather fight them there, where they are attracted like bugs to light, than here. This war wont end like WW2, it wont have a clear ending, and it will be with us for decades to come, frankly.
Click to expand...



EdwinWillers said:
I voted "watch and wait." Not because I necessarily think that's what we ought to do, but because that's pretty typical of Obama. He'll get in a round of golf or 20, wait to see what happens, then do whatever he feels will help him out most, politically.
Click to expand...


This is becoming a rapidly deteriorating situation. There is a growing risk of the violence spreading into Jordan and other neighboring countries.

The U.S. needs to target ISIS supply lines in Iraq and ISIS command and control facilities inside Syria. There are clearly identifiable targets that could be hit with maximum effectiveness and minimum risk to civilians.





The Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham is threatening to take control of Balad Airbase, Iraq’s largest airfield and one of America’s most important military outposts during its occupation of the country.

Today, Balad still has plenty of vehicles and aircraft on the base that any terrorist group would covet, including Russian-made transport helicopters, surveillance planes, and a fleet of pickup trucks fitted with heavy machine guns.

Now, that airbase is coming under fire—and is in danger of falling into the hands of ISIS, according to U.S. intelligence officers, internal reports from Balad, and outside analysts. Reuters reported Wednesday that the base was now surrounded on three sides by insurgents and taking heavy mortar fire.

ISIS Tries to Grab Its Own Air Force
Click to expand...


Sunni militants have fought for a week to take over Iraq's largest oil refinery in Beiji, north of Baghdad.

The refinery is located in the heart of the Sunni-dominated areas in northern Iraq, where the militants have swallowed large swaths of land since June 10. Along with a nearby power plant, the refinery supplies Iraq with a third of its refined fuel and nearly a tenth of its electricity, according to Barclays analysts.

Iraq militants launch fresh raid on oil refinery
Click to expand...


ISIS is not yet capable of carrying out its threat to attack the U.S. and President Obama wants to "make sure that they never can," Secretary of State John Kerry told ABC News today.

The leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, has made threats to attack Americans and other western countries, and Britain's Prime Minister David Cameron recently said he fears ISIS is a danger to the West. But when asked whether ISIS has the ability to strike the U.S., Kerry said, "Not yet."

"Certainly one of the considerations we have is to make sure that they never can. But that's exactly what the president is busy trying to determine now, is: What is the best way to approach that so that we are most effective and, frankly, in a way that is sustainable over the long haul?" he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-sure-isis-cant-attack-us-kerry-tells-170542087--abc-news-politics.html
Click to expand...
 
grip said:
I predict from the News sources info on ISIL/ISIS, we'll definitely have to do air strikes at minimum and probably ground forces. They're gathering too much momentum, causing too much of a conflagration in the ME/Levant and rumoring they'll start terror attacks on the US and Israel. All that and their increasing ability to affect oil markets and drawing in other surrounding Arab nations will put pressure on the US to react.

They might settle down and organize the areas they have in control and leave it alone, but I doubt it because of their fundamentalist nature to spread extremism and conquer.
Click to expand...

We should not waste any more American lives and money on any country.American lives and money are worth more than the lives of foreigners.
 
jamesrage said:
We should not waste any more American lives and money on any country.American lives and money are worth more than the lives of foreigners.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute, you just said in another thread that we should let half of a major city basically die of thirst, if they can't afford it, all Americans. But we shouldn't prevent the terrorists from securing an area that gives them the resources to attack us on our own soil again? Meh..
 
grip said:
Wait a minute, you just said in another thread that we should let half of a major city basically die of thirst, if they can't afford it, all Americans.
Click to expand...

Water is cheap.If they are can not afford it is because they are not prioritizing their spending.A bum in my city can easily afford water, so why can't half those people in Detroit you claim to be dying of thirst?

But we shouldn't prevent the terrorists from securing an area that gives them the resources to attack us on our own soil again? Meh..
Click to expand...

I am sure that excuse has been use for a lot of conflicts.But I am not buying it this time.Degenerate neocon scum are always looking for a bull **** excuse to get us into war and many gullible people buy it.

Many of these degenerate neocon scum claim "oh you can't be an isolationist". It was trying to interfere in everyone's business that got us into this mess.
 
jamesrage said:
Water is cheap.If they are can not afford it is because they are not prioritizing their spending.A bum in my city can easily afford water, so why can't half those people in Detroit you claim to be dying of thirst?
Click to expand...

Half the people in Detroit can't afford to pay their water bill and that's alright with you, because they're obviously worse than bums? Dude, you need to dwell on that a little more.

I am sure that excuse has been use for a lot of conflicts.But I am not buying it this time.Degenerate neocon scum are always looking for a bull **** excuse to get us into war and many gullible people buy it.

Many of these degenerate neocon scum claim "oh you can't be an isolationist". It was trying to interfere in everyone's business that got us into this mess.
Click to expand...


You obviously didn't read my post for the reasoning on why we're going back in? Doesn't matter now how some dimwits got us into it, we're in the **** now.
 
cpwill said:
Here's an interesting question - how many Europeans do you think either have, or are currently training under, fighting with, or traveling to meet ISIL, ANF, and like groups?
Click to expand...

An estimated 800 French, 100 German and 1000 British citizens.
 
The German said:
An estimated 800 French, 100 German and 1000 British citizens.
Click to expand...

....hmm. okay. And do you think they might be planning on coming back? How many do you think are flowing in and out per month? Year?


These people are training an at-home Jihadi force of European citizens. Like it or not, the Middle Easts' problems are our problems.
 
grip said:
This is becoming a rapidly deteriorating situation. There is a growing risk of the violence spreading into Jordan and other neighboring countries.

The U.S. needs to target ISIS supply lines in Iraq and ISIS command and control facilities inside Syria. There are clearly identifiable targets that could be hit with maximum effectiveness and minimum risk to civilians.
Click to expand...
...and Obama has several tee-times already in queue. Whatever the U.S. "needs" to do will, I suspect, have to wait until the 19th hole.
 
cpwill said:
....hmm. okay. And do you think they might be planning on coming back? How many do you think are flowing in and out per month? Year?


These people are training an at-home Jihadi force of European citizens. Like it or not, the Middle Easts' problems are our problems.
Click to expand...

I have actualy opend a thread on this already.

What I hope will happen is that their citizenship will be revoked.

Some have already returnd, those that **** their pants after arriving in Syria and fled back, those are now facing trial for supporting terror organisations.
 
grip said:
Half the people in Detroit can't afford to pay their water bill and that's alright with you, because they're obviously worse than bums? Dude, you need to dwell on that a little more..
Click to expand...

They can still buy water from the store. They do have programs that help the poor

Nearly Half Of Detroit Water Customers Can’t Pay Their Bill « CBS Detroit
“We do have programs that do help those that are just totally in need; can’t afford it — but we also know that there are also people who can’t afford it would can not pay and we know this because, once we shut water off, the next day they are in paying the bill in full. So we do know that that has become a habit as well,” said Garner.



You obviously didn't read my post for the reasoning on why we're going back in? Doesn't matter now how some dimwits got us into it, we're in the **** now
Click to expand...

Neocons will come up with any bull **** excuse to get us involved in another war regardless if its financially and or militarily. Oh its to stop terrorism from spreaden, oh we need to stop the ruskies from taken over Ukraine, oh we need to stick up for our allies.
 
War economies do keep folks working. Makes for good press for the Kingdom of Washington - that means more claims that job rates are up. The good citizens get excited when job rates are up. Casket companies and funeral home businesses thrive. The US is becoming the world leader in maintaining war economies.
 
jamesrage said:
Neocons will come up with any bull **** excuse to get us involved in another war regardless if its financially and or militarily. Oh its to stop terrorism from spreaden, oh we need to stop the ruskies from taken over Ukraine, oh we need to stick up for our allies.
Click to expand...


Why do you keep saying Neocons, as though they rule the US? Yes, they're nuts about using the military to spread Americanism, but that's not what's happening in Iraq right now. It's becoming a situation that will affect every US citizen at the pumps and possibly create a base for attacks on US interests.

I bet you dollars for donuts we'll be back over there before the Holiday Season.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom