View Poll Results: Back to Iraq?

Voters
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  • Yes, with some amount of troops.

    3 6.98%
  • No, we'll stay out indefinitely.

    17 39.53%
  • We'll do minimalist advisers, air force and/or drone attacks.

    13 30.23%
  • It's a watch and wait situation for now.

    10 23.26%
  • Other (explain).

    3 6.98%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Back to Iraq?

  1. #91
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    Re: Back to Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    if they form a country, a declaration of war would effectively target all citizens of the country.

    what good is a human shield when the entire country is fair game?
    So when the SAME innocent civilians are killed you will be fine with it? Because its a nation instead of a region? Really?
    ISIS has stated clearly that it WILL target the US, so lets give them a place to make plans? Really?
    When one side fights asymmetrically, western armies generally fight by different rules, to minimize innocents from suffering. If you are suggesting that this limitation will be lifted if they are granted nation status you are dreaming. And if it makes you sleep better because of that distinction, well thats worrisome.

  2. #92
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    Re: Back to Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I predict from the News sources info on ISIL/ISIS, we'll definitely have to do air strikes at minimum and probably ground forces. They're gathering too much momentum, causing too much of a conflagration in the ME/Levant and rumoring they'll start terror attacks on the US and Israel. All that and their increasing ability to affect oil markets and drawing in other surrounding Arab nations will put pressure on the US to react.

    They might settle down and organize the areas they have in control and leave it alone, but I doubt it because of their fundamentalist nature to spread extremism and conquer.
    I voted "watch and wait." Not because I necessarily think that's what we ought to do, but because that's pretty typical of Obama. He'll get in a round of golf or 20, wait to see what happens, then do whatever he feels will help him out most, politically.
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

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    Re: Back to Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    Oil is fungible, so as long as we rely on it as our primary transportation fuel, we will be affected by whatever happens in the Middle East and in other hostile regions of the world. It's in our interest to set a goal of replacing our energy model. We've wasted too much time already, and the same thing is going to happen again and again.



    No war without wartime tax rates. Whenever our troops are deployed, the marginal rates should be almost putative. This will serve two purposes . First, it will pay for the war itself, as well as corollary costs. Second, it will make the average American a lot less hawkish.
    Oil prices are largely set on the world stage, so even more local drilling is unlikely to drop costs significantly. What we DO have, is hundreds of years of oil, and the likelyhood that new reserves and harvesting techniques will be developed. And we can send money to our allies or at least not our geopolitical adversaries. Thats what we should be doing now. And beyond that, there is no substitute that even comes close to meeting our demands.

    As far as the taxes, maybe instead of thinking how you can punish Americans to make them think more in line with you (how independent), instead think of the risks as they exist today. You know what makes people hawkish? A terrorist attack, as well as daily news about the constant violence from islamists.

    ISIS was a more radical AQ, and they have been fighting for quite some time, all over the world. This is becoming a beacon for terrorists. Hit them there or they will hit us here. They openly state this as a goal.

  4. #94
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    Re: Back to Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    So when the SAME innocent civilians are killed you will be fine with it? Because its a nation instead of a region? Really?
    ISIS has stated clearly that it WILL target the US, so lets give them a place to make plans? Really?
    When one side fights asymmetrically, western armies generally fight by different rules, to minimize innocents from suffering. If you are suggesting that this limitation will be lifted if they are granted nation status you are dreaming. And if it makes you sleep better because of that distinction, well thats worrisome.
    i find it funny you are lecturing me about the morality of war.

    let ISIS form a country, let them gather together out in the open, that way they lose one of their major advantages, their ability to hide in the shadows. when we declare war on isis we will not be fighting a limited war, we will be fighting A total war. no more trying to win wars cheaply, go for broke.
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    Re: Back to Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Because that course of action would make turkey very angry.
    And Iran. And Iraq. And Syria.

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    Re: Back to Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    1)My opinion reflects the reality. 2) There isn't a conspiracy here, if the means existed, 3) we wouldnt need BS chrontarded lefty subsidies, and a system would present itself. 4) Thats not the case, and the few promising solutions, like nuclear, are opposed, mostly by lefties. 4) Take a look at the energy demands (and more remarkably the output) of our economy. There IS NO substitute for oil. 5) And the irony of you sitting in front of a computer made of oil based products as you say this is particularly ironic.
    1) Statement is an oxymoron.

    2) Misleading statement - No one said anything about a conspiracy...except for you.

    3) Statement of opinion....not even a rational one at that.

    4) Statement based on ignorance - Poster has not kept up with the latest clean, renewable technology.

    5) Statement is irrelevant and immaterial. - We are talking energy by fossil fuel, not the by-products of oil such as plastics.

  7. #97
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    Re: Back to Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    i find it funny you are lecturing me about the morality of war.

    let ISIS form a country, let them gather together out in the open, that way they lose one of their major advantages, their ability to hide in the shadows. when we declare war on isis we will not be fighting a limited war, we will be fighting A total war. no more trying to win wars cheaply, go for broke.
    You still dont understand. What determines high or low intensity or asymmetric warfare, or total war IS NOT an international border-its based on the tactics of the combatants involved.

    These guys dont wear uniforms, and they aren't going to gather in the open-they have been fighting western (and arab) forces for decades-they know thats a quick way to get killed. Their military is a bunch of small arms, and some light vehicles, with a few tanks thrown in. Do you think they will go toe to toe with a modern military force? What happens when they FORCE locals to stay in cities as shields (a common tactic)? Do you think the US will somehow be absolved from reducing an entire city to ruins? Russia has done that in the past. We wont-we are held to a higher standard and should be.

    I think American general support (air cover for emergencies, surveillance, etc) behind an Iraqi force which can fight using arab rules (See Syria) is the solution.

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    Re: Back to Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    1) Statement is an oxymoron.

    2) Misleading statement - No one said anything about a conspiracy...except for you.

    3) Statement of opinion....not even a rational one at that.

    4) Statement based on ignorance - Poster has not kept up with the latest clean, renewable technology.

    5) Statement is irrelevant and immaterial. - We are talking energy by fossil fuel, not the by-products of oil such as plastics.
    Read your initial post to me again. Its filled with bizarre delusions and silly phrases like no blood for oil. If you believe that as true, why would you use (and pay!) for a computer made of oil based products? Is it because you like blood? The oil used to make your computer didn't just magically appear, it had to be located, harvested, and refined. This applies to anything made of plastic in your home.

    If you disagree with my comments regarding energy, kindly link to the current US energy demands, and show WHAT source, other than oil can meet that demand.

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    Re: Back to Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    You still dont understand. What determines high or low intensity or asymmetric warfare, or total war IS NOT an international border-its based on the tactics of the combatants involved.

    These guys dont wear uniforms, and they aren't going to gather in the open-they have been fighting western (and arab) forces for decades-they know thats a quick way to get killed. Their military is a bunch of small arms, and some light vehicles, with a few tanks thrown in. Do you think they will go toe to toe with a modern military force? What happens when they FORCE locals to stay in cities as shields (a common tactic)? Do you think the US will somehow be absolved from reducing an entire city to ruins? Russia has done that in the past. We wont-we are held to a higher standard and should be.

    I think American general support (air cover for emergencies, surveillance, etc) behind an Iraqi force which can fight using arab rules (See Syria) is the solution.
    the only way i can approve of american involvement in iraq is by issuing a proper declaration of war. because that is the only way we can get involved in iraq without violating the law.
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    Re: Back to Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Because that course of action would make turkey very angry.
    This is not something I've followed closely, but apparently there are signs that's not as true as it once was.

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