View Poll Results: Should Congress Pass A Bill That Requires Employers to Provide Paid Maternity Leave?

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    29 29.59%
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    64 65.31%
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Thread: Should All Companies be Required to Provide Paid Maternity Leave?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should All Companies be Required to Provide Paid Maternity Leave?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Do you agree with the President's recent statements that the US should join the rest of the industrialized world and have provided paid maternity leave? The President said that Congress should work on legislation requiring employers to have paid maternity leave? Do you believe this should be law or not?
    I will admit to being torn.



    On the one hand, this would make it harder for women to get jobs. It would disadvantage them against men.

    On the other, it is good policy (not because of that, but in spite of it).

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    Re: Should All Companies be Required to Provide Paid Maternity Leave?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I'm not going to get into a pissing contest about what a liberal, by definition, is. Heck, LIBERALS call themselves liberals...until it turns into a dirty word, then they call themselves progressives...so I'll call them liberals. And, yes...Obama, his Democrat buddies and his supporters are liberals.
    Okay, I apologize for that, but I don't agree that liberal and progressive are mutually exclusive. Heck, progressive isn't even the best word to describe me; it just happened to be the closest out of the available leans.

    Anyway...back on topic. Why do you liberals want to place the cost of consequences of individual choices on the backs of businesses? Do you think those businesses are a bottomless money-bag that you can raid for your feel-good social agenda items? You would be more honest is you just raised taxes and let the government pay for it...but it still wouldn't be the right thing to do.
    You make it sound like businesses are suffering more than the average worker, which is simply not true. In reality, the U.S. bends over backwards to serve the interests of corporation; 1 in 9 corporations pay no taxes, and the corporation pays less in taxes than the average taxpayer. (see link) Also, there's no genuine proof that this kind of mandate would hurt businesses at any measurable amount. Every other first world nation offers paid parental leave of some sort, and capitalism is alive and well there. In addition to the abortion reduction issue that I mentioned earlier, if workers believe that it is their right to have paid parental leave, and the vast majority of them do, (see second link) they will be happier with an employer that provides it, and therefore be more productive.

    Over 10 Percent Of America's Largest Companies Pay Zero Percent Tax Rates
    Paid Sick Leave Supported By Most Americans, Poll Finds

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    Re: Should All Companies be Required to Provide Paid Maternity Leave?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I will admit to being torn.



    On the one hand, this would make it harder for women to get jobs. It would disadvantage them against men.

    On the other, it is good policy (not because of that, but in spite of it).
    Why not simply make it paid parental leave instead? It ends gender bias on the subject and eliminates the disadvantage towards women as far as employment.

  4. #54
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    Re: Should All Companies be Required to Provide Paid Maternity Leave?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    Okay, I apologize for that, but I don't agree that liberal and progressive are mutually exclusive. Heck, progressive isn't even the best word to describe me; it just happened to be the closest out of the available leans.



    You make it sound like businesses are suffering more than the average worker, which is simply not true. In reality, the U.S. bends over backwards to serve the interests of corporation; 1 in 9 corporations pay no taxes, and the corporation pays less in taxes than the average taxpayer. (see link) Also, there's no genuine proof that this kind of mandate would hurt businesses at any measurable amount. Every other first world nation offers paid parental leave of some sort, and capitalism is alive and well there. In addition to the abortion reduction issue that I mentioned earlier, if workers believe that it is their right to have paid parental leave, and the vast majority of them do, (see second link) they will be happier with an employer that provides it, and therefore be more productive.

    Over 10 Percent Of America's Largest Companies Pay Zero Percent Tax Rates
    Paid Sick Leave Supported By Most Americans, Poll Finds
    Taxes have nothing to do with it. We aren't talking about taxing businesses and then giving the money to new mothers. We are talking about the government deciding that businesses should pay their employees for something that resulted from that employee's personal choice. Heck, you might as well make businesses pay for a big screen TV for each of their employees if that's what the employee wants to buy. This is akin to making an employer pay a "living wage" to their employee. And NONE of it has a lick to do with the work that employee is doing...or the money that employee is earning...for the company.

    Now...if an individual employee wants to negotiate for paid parental leave from a prospective employer, that's fine. But the government has no business getting involved.

    You liberals really need to get away from this idea that the government has a right to mandate that others pay for people's personal choices. Like I said...just be honest...just raise taxes on everyone...enact another entitlement program.
    Last edited by Mycroft; 06-24-14 at 10:30 PM.
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    Re: Should All Companies be Required to Provide Paid Maternity Leave?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Taxes have nothing to do with it. We aren't talking about taxing businesses and then giving the money to new mothers. We are talking about the government deciding that businesses should pay their employees for something that resulted from that employee's personal choice. Heck, you might as well make businesses pay for a big screen TV for each of their employees if that's what the employee wants to buy. This is akin to making an employer pay a "living wage" to their employee. And NONE of it has a lick to do with the work that employee is doing...or the money that employee is earning...for the company.

    Now...if an individual employee wants to negotiate for paid parental leave from a prospective employer, that's fine. But the government has no business getting involved.

    You liberals really need to get away from this idea that the government has a right to mandate that others pay for people's personal choices. Like I said...just be honest...just raise taxes on everyone...enact another entitlement program.
    It does have to do with taxes because the low corporate tax rate and loopholes used by corporations means that they bring in more profit which is given to the CEOs at the top of the food chain. They're not suffering, and they won't suffer from a paid leave mandate. There's a huge difference between paid parental leave and free flat screen TVs. Firstly, paid parental leave directly has to do with the employer-employee relationship, whilst flat screen TVs do not, and secondly, paid parental leave can be necessary for economic stability, while flat screen TVs are not. A happier employee means a more productive employee, and as I evidenced before, most people, including parents who have been denied access to paid parental leave, believe that they should have parental leave, and would be more satisfied with a business that grants them parental leave. Regarding negotiations, how is a worker supposed to participate in the collective bargaining process when states are passing the incorrectly named "right-to-work" laws. Allowing your employees to have paid parental leave also puts companies at a competitive disadvantage when it's not across the board, so the mandate will actually benefit businesses that haven chosen to already give their employees paid parental leave. "the government has a right to mandate that others pay for people's personal choices." You disagree with this statement, but isn't this statement the very basis of taxation itself? Do you therefore oppose taxation?

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    Re: Should All Companies be Required to Provide Paid Maternity Leave?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    It does have to do with taxes because the low corporate tax rate and loopholes used by corporations means that they bring in more profit which is given to the CEOs at the top of the food chain. They're not suffering, and they won't suffer from a paid leave mandate. There's a huge difference between paid parental leave and free flat screen TVs. Firstly, paid parental leave directly has to do with the employer-employee relationship, whilst flat screen TVs do not, and secondly, paid parental leave can be necessary for economic stability, while flat screen TVs are not. A happier employee means a more productive employee, and as I evidenced before, most people, including parents who have been denied access to paid parental leave, believe that they should have parental leave, and would be more satisfied with a business that grants them parental leave. Regarding negotiations, how is a worker supposed to participate in the collective bargaining process when states are passing the incorrectly named "right-to-work" laws. Allowing your employees to have paid parental leave also puts companies at a competitive disadvantage when it's not across the board, so the mandate will actually benefit businesses that haven chosen to already give their employees paid parental leave. "the government has a right to mandate that others pay for people's personal choices." You disagree with this statement, but isn't this statement the very basis of taxation itself? Do you therefore oppose taxation?
    Why do democrats/socialists love fascism so much?

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    Re: Should All Companies be Required to Provide Paid Maternity Leave?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    It does have to do with taxes because the low corporate tax rate and loopholes used by corporations means that they bring in more profit which is given to the CEOs at the top of the food chain. They're not suffering, and they won't suffer from a paid leave mandate.
    If you don't like corporate loopholes, then do something about THAT. Don't try to use it as justification for screwing businesses over.

    There's a huge difference between paid parental leave and free flat screen TVs.
    No there isn't. Both things are the result of personal choice of the individual.

    Firstly, paid parental leave directly has to do with the employer-employee relationship, whilst flat screen TVs do not,
    Well, you are right on this one. If a company has to pay an employee to not do any work, that's going to hurt the company. The employee will be watching TV on their own time.

    and secondly, paid parental leave can be necessary for economic stability, while flat screen TVs are not.
    So would the individual making wise decisions...like not having a baby...or buying a TV...unless they can afford it.

    A happier employee means a more productive employee, and as I evidenced before, most people, including parents who have been denied access to paid parental leave, believe that they should have parental leave, and would be more satisfied with a business that grants them parental leave.
    All that may be true...but that is a decision arrived at between the employer and the employee. The government has no business mandating that companies spend money...just because the EMPLOYEE wants a benefit.

    Regarding negotiations, how is a worker supposed to participate in the collective bargaining process when states are passing the incorrectly named "right-to-work" laws. Allowing your employees to have paid parental leave also puts companies at a competitive disadvantage when it's not across the board, so the mandate will actually benefit businesses that haven chosen to already give their employees paid parental leave. "the government has a right to mandate that others pay for people's personal choices." You disagree with this statement, but isn't this statement the very basis of taxation itself? Do you therefore oppose taxation?
    Collective bargaining?? What the hell does THAT have to do with anything?

    You really don't know anything about business, do you? All companies are subject to falling under a competitive disadvantage...or advantage...depending on decisions they make. That's the way it works. Don't screw things up by getting the government involved.

    Mandating that a business pay for the personal choice of a private citizen is not a tax. It is simply government issuing dictates. Taxes have nothing to do with this issue.

    Look, you are twisting, spinning and flying in the breeze trying to justify the government acting as a dictator. It's not working.
    TANSTAAFL

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    Re: Should All Companies be Required to Provide Paid Maternity Leave?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Why do democrats/socialists love fascism so much?
    "Fascism /fæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe." -Wikipedia

    Under what circumstances is arguing for paid parental leave radical authoritarian nationalism? Also, I'm neither a democrat nor a socialist.

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    Re: Should All Companies be Required to Provide Paid Maternity Leave?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    "Fascism /fæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe." -Wikipedia

    Under what circumstances is arguing for paid parental leave radical authoritarian nationalism? Also, I'm neither a democrat nor a socialist.
    There are other definitions. One, perhaps the most important, is where the government controls businesses through regulations. That is what we have in the US.

    If you claim you are neither a socialist nor a democrat then you are a liar. At the minimum you are a fascist.

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    Re: Should All Companies be Required to Provide Paid Maternity Leave?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    If you don't like corporate loopholes, then do something about THAT. Don't try to use it as justification for screwing businesses over.



    No there isn't. Both things are the result of personal choice of the individual.



    Well, you are right on this one. If a company has to pay an employee to not do any work, that's going to hurt the company. The employee will be watching TV on their own time.



    So would the individual making wise decisions...like not having a baby...or buying a TV...unless they can afford it.



    All that may be true...but that is a decision arrived at between the employer and the employee. The government has no business mandating that companies spend money...just because the EMPLOYEE wants a benefit.



    Collective bargaining?? What the hell does THAT have to do with anything?

    You really don't know anything about business, do you? All companies are subject to falling under a competitive disadvantage...or advantage...depending on decisions they make. That's the way it works. Don't screw things up by getting the government involved.

    Mandating that a business pay for the personal choice of a private citizen is not a tax. It is simply government issuing dictates. Taxes have nothing to do with this issue.

    Look, you are twisting, spinning and flying in the breeze trying to justify the government acting as a dictator. It's not working.
    The point about corporate tax loopholes is that you're portraying businesses as though they're victimized by the situation. I was using corporate tax loopholes as an example that corporations suffering in this country is simply not true. Again, you referred to paid parental leave as "hurting" the company, despite the fact that companies based in every other first world country get along fine while paying for parental leave of their employees. Regarding the decisions between the employer/employee, what makes the company more deserving of profits than they can get along fine without than a worker who needs paid parental leave to remain economically stable. By "negotiate," I assume you were referring to collective bargaining, but since you weren't, the employee won't have anyone sticking up for them, so unless the employer is unusually generous, they're not getting paid parental leave. How does getting the government involved "screw everything up?" Companies that give paid parental leave are at a competitive disadvantage, just as companies that pay their workers a higher wage than the minimum wage are at a competitive disadvantage. If everyone is required to give employees paid parental leave, those who are already providing it will no longer be at a competitive disadvantage. How does that qualify as the government screwing things up? The reason I brought up taxes is that you said you oppose the idea of a government mandate such as this one, yet taxes are a government mandate upon citizens, and are preferably used for wealth redistribution. And lastly, how is supporting a paid parental leave mandate go against democratic or republican values?

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