Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face? [W:166]

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

radcen said:

*facepalm*

The premise of this thread is clear... and also absurd. The OP believes they have cleverly conceived a question that nobody with an opposing point-of-view can answer, hence proving their own point-of-view. Unfortunately for them the question is so full of holes and off-target as to be meaningless, and as such is really nothing but a bait question. It was a train wreck before the original post was completed.

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True. Unfortunately, for some people, that's all they got. Faux outrage and a closed mind, with no willingness to consider that just maybe they are missing something.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Higgins86 said:

The old " its not racist because I have friends who are natives" ( one of them is also half black and in a wheelchair). Classic white person argument.

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When you personally go get involved in their actual culture, become a part of their family, and have them identify you as one of them, just as I did, then you can feel free to come back and lecture me. Until then, you are speaking from the standpoint of ignorance.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

No, I wouldn't call someone a Redskin to his face any more than I would call someone a Blackskin, Whiteskin, Yellow Skin, or Brownskin to his face. Why on Earth would anyone do that?

I also wouldn't call someone Fatty, Shorty, Stinky, Blondie, Brunettey, Stupid, Lazy, Weakling, Smarty, Tall Boy, Pretty, Handsome, Bulky, Freckley or any other name. Maybe I was raised wrong. I was raised to call people by their names.

What was the purpose of this thread?

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Kal'Stang said:

In a situation as you describe here no, I wouldn't. But then I also wouldn't call some black guy that introduced themselves as "oh, a black" either. Same goes for whites, chinese, arab, or any other thing. I'd use my manners that my mother taught me and say "Nice to meet you Mr./Mrs. <insert last name here>". Or just simply say "hello".

All that you're doing is trying to take one specific context and apply it to ALL contexts in order to proclaim that it's a slur. Hate to tell ya this but thats just not how it works. Context ALWAYS matters. Why do you think that black people can call other black people "niggers" and no one bats an eye...yet if some other race did it (particularly whites) the chains of war are unleashed? Context is what makes something offensive or not. Not the words themselves. If I was to go up to my wife and in all seriousness called her the B word she'd have a right to be offeneded and would no doubt slap the crap outta me. However if I went up to my wife and said the same thing in a joking manner all that she would do is call me some similar name. Possibly even the same. :mrgreen: Words are only offensive if they are meant to be offensive. If they're not meant to be offensive then they are not. It really is that simple.

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No, actually, I am not trying to apply one context to all contexts. I specifically narrowed the context to non-joking contexts because people were avoiding the point by bringing up joking contexts. There are other contexts where it might be acceptable, but, in general, you can't call a Native American a redskin without it being offensive.

My sample dialog was an oversimplified dialog to illustrate how race might come up in a non joking manner, but it isn't the only way, and is not essential to my point. To solely focus on it when responding to my post is simply a dishonest way to respond. A person who cannot respond to a person's point obviously knows on some level they are afraid to admit something.

It is ridiculous to try to construe a person's post as something other than it is, and then respond to that. Gee, I think there is indeed a named fallacy for it or something.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

CRUE CAB said:

Context, context.

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Yup. If I am with my native friends and we are playing around, yeah I might throw it out there but I would never just say that to some randon person I don't even know.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Deuce said:

This is a better question than the other poll.

If your answer is "no," you should ponder why not. And maybe even post why not in this thread.

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Depends greatly on the situation. If we're talking a complete strange, then most likely no, for a variety of reasons:

1. I don't tend to walk up to people and call them by a racial classification, or address people based on a racial classification. ESPECIALLY people I don't know. I don't go walking down the street and see someone and go "Hey White Guy! What's up" or "How you doing black man"? Similarly, I'm not going to go up and say "Hello Redskin".

2. I recognize that it can be viewed as offensive, and I also recognize as it's an anachronistic word at this point, so if for some crazy reason I was randomly deciding to identify someone I've never met by a racial category I would likely use the most benign and commonly accepted method since I'm DIRECTLY referring to them which heightens the chance to offend. This is much the same way I'd refer to a black individual I was addressing in a similar fashion by using "African American" even though I routinely use "black" instead of that, because I recognize that's generally viewed as the most benign and neutral term.

3. Its a largely dated word in the current vernacular, and as such doesn't tend to come to mind in terms of racial classifications nearly as quickly or as naturally as something like native american or indian or american indian. It's similar to "colored" for a black person; it's dated, it's considered offensive by many to use it to describe a black person in the modern day, but it's still recognized in some cases as being used in a non-offensive manner today due to the context of those cases.

Now if it's NOT a complete stranger, but rather a friend, it'd greatly depend on their personal feelings regarding it. If I know them to have no issue with the word and I needed to reference native americans I wouldn't have a huge issue using it, though likely wouldn't because once again it's rather dated as a method of referring to native americans in every day vernacular. Not out of any concious thought, but simply because saying "native american" or "indian" or "american indian" is simply what comes to mind and the tongue quicker. I associate words like "native americans" and "indians" with a race, I associate the word "redskin" with a football team, and thus when talking about the race my brian is FAR more likely to spit out one of the other terms 99.9% of the time. If they did personally have an issue with it's use I likely wouldn't use it around them, out of respect for a friend.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

tres borrachos said:

No, I wouldn't call someone a Redskin to his face any more than I would call someone a Blackskin, Whiteskin, Yellow Skin, or Brownskin to his face. Why on Earth would anyone do that?

I also wouldn't call someone Fatty, Shorty, Stinky, Blondie, Brunettey, Stupid, Lazy, Weakling, Smarty, Tall Boy, Pretty, Handsome, Bulky, Freckley or any other name. Maybe I was raised wrong. I was raised to call people by their names.

What was the purpose of this thread?

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I don't think it was meant to address the situation where you where introduced to "Jeremy" and then you respond "hey, Redskin, nice to meet you". Do you really believe that is what the OP was referring to?

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Higgins86 said:

The old " its not racist because I have friends who are natives" ( one of them is also half black and in a wheelchair). Classic white person argument.

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lol, considering one of my friends is half native half Mexican and in a wheelchair. Yeah some things can be racist but what's a little racism between friends who aren't going to be offended? I have a very diverse group of friends and neighbors and if we all got offended everytime one of us said something playing around, we couldn't make it one day without a fight. But then again maybe it's just the white half of me that is arguing that. :2razz:

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Dezaad said:

I don't think it was meant to address the situation where you where introduced to "Jeremy" and then you respond "hey, Redskin, nice to meet you". Do you really believe that is what the OP was referring to?

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No, I think the OP was ridiculous, as evidenced by my post. Most people wouldn't call someone a name that is a reflection on a physical attribute, unless there is some context to it, and you know the person. If my husband was Native American, would I call him Redskin to his face? Sure, if we were jokingly or otherwise calling each other names other than our real names. If he said "Hey Blondie" I may respond with "Yes Redskin?". My husband is very pale (I am very dark - aka "Black Irish" with blonde hair), and I often call him "Paleskin" or "Casper".

Would I call a stranger "Redskin" to his face? No. Nor would I call a stranger any other name that is a reflection on his appearance.

So it's a ridiculous question, unless it's directed at the people who tend to call strangers names that are commentaries on physical attributes. Except for kids, I don't know of too many people who are into name calling.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

americanwoman said:

Yup. If I am with my native friends and we are playing around, yeah I might throw it out there but I would never just say that to some randon person I don't even know.

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Again, context. The Redskin name, logo, image and team are treated with respect and admiration. Also asking for and gaining approval from the tribes almost a century ago.
This is not Chief Wahoo we are talking about here.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

AJ 2448 said:

Absolutely no. It is a slur.

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What if they're wearing a Redskin Cap ?

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

lizzie said:

When you personally go get involved in their actual culture, become a part of their family, and have them identify you as one of them, just as I did, then you can feel free to come back and lecture me. Until then, you are speaking from the standpoint of ignorance.

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Oh please "Lizzie run's with horses" you speak for every Native American in America? You now feel confident that you could walk up to any Native American in America, call them redskin and you wouldn't get a few smacks in the mouth? Bull****.

Like anything every person is different. My best friend is from Pakistani origin and often refers to himself as a Paki but he doesn't speak for all Pakistanis in the UK so it would not be correct for me to assume that I could also call others Paki. Also something many of you forget is that you don't have to be the target to find something offensive I am not Jewish but I am very offended my the word kike.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

americanwoman said:

lol, considering one of my friends is half native half Mexican and in a wheelchair. Yeah some things can be racist but what's a little racism between friends who aren't going to be offended? I have a very diverse group of friends and neighbors and if we all got offended everytime one of us said something playing around, we couldn't make it one day without a fight. But then again maybe it's just the white half of me that is arguing that. :2razz:

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I have a very diverse group of friends as well. And I never feel the need or desire to call them by anything other then their name.

Why anyone else would feel the need to share a racist comment 'between friends' is beyond me.


And I do not believe for one second that you mean nothing by it. The fact that calling them these things even occurs to you (when it NEVER does to me - and I have been high/drunk with many of them) strongly suggests that you hold these racist beliefs to at least some extent.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Slyfox696 said:

No. But I might call them an Indian, which I think is also considered offensive.

In other words, the reason I wouldn't call them "redskin" has nothing to do with political correctness and more because I just wouldn't. To me, a Redskin is someone in pads playing football in DC.

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Same here.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

americanwoman said:

lol, considering one of my friends is half native half Mexican and in a wheelchair. Yeah some things can be racist but what's a little racism between friends who aren't going to be offended? I have a very diverse group of friends and neighbors and if we all got offended everytime one of us said something playing around, we couldn't make it one day without a fight. But then again maybe it's just the white half of me that is arguing that. :2razz:

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Between friends is fine as you all know where the line is however it's silly to then use that line with other people who you do not know and may react differently.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Deuce said:

This is a better question than the other poll.

If your answer is "no," you should ponder why not. And maybe even post why not in this thread.

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Congratulations, you found another way to get right-wingers to look stupid. They're trying to remain firm and make excuses for why its okay, they think they can explain it away. :lamo Their responses in this thread are hilarious, talk about bs!

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

DA60 said:

I have a very diverse group of friends as well. And I never feel the need or desire to call them by anything other then their name.

Why anyone else would feel the need to share a racist comment 'between friends' is beyond me.


And I do not believe for one second that you mean nothing by it. The fact that calling them these things even occurs to you (when it NEVER does to me - and I have been high/drunk with many of them) strongly suggests that you hold these racist beliefs to at least some extent.

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Not at alll. I am half Mexican but am very light skinned, do you know how many times growing up I was the white girl, la "wedita", or a variety of those words? **** my husband jokingly calls me a cracker alot and I don't take none of it as racism at all. I have thick skin and if you are gonna cry because I call you a redneck or a paisa, then I can't help you can't take a joke.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Zyphlin said:

Depends greatly on the situation. If we're talking a complete strange, then most likely no, for a variety of reasons:

1. I don't tend to walk up to people and call them by a racial classification, or address people based on a racial classification. ESPECIALLY people I don't know. I don't go walking down the street and see someone and go "Hey White Guy! What's up" or "How you doing black man"? Similarly, I'm not going to go up and say "Hello Redskin".

2. I recognize that it can be viewed as offensive, and I also recognize as it's an anachronistic word at this point, so if for some crazy reason I was randomly deciding to identify someone I've never met by a racial category I would likely use the most benign and commonly accepted method since I'm DIRECTLY referring to them which heightens the chance to offend. This is much the same way I'd refer to a black individual I was addressing in a similar fashion by using "African American" even though I routinely use "black" instead of that, because I recognize that's generally viewed as the most benign and neutral term.

3. Its a largely dated word in the current vernacular, and as such doesn't tend to come to mind in terms of racial classifications nearly as quickly or as naturally as something like native american or indian or american indian. It's similar to "colored" for a black person; it's dated, it's considered offensive by many to use it to describe a black person in the modern day, but it's still recognized in some cases as being used in a non-offensive manner today due to the context of those cases.

Now if it's NOT a complete stranger, but rather a friend, it'd greatly depend on their personal feelings regarding it. If I know them to have no issue with the word and I needed to reference native americans I wouldn't have a huge issue using it, though likely wouldn't because once again it's rather dated as a method of referring to native americans in every day vernacular. Not out of any concious thought, but simply because saying "native american" or "indian" or "american indian" is simply what comes to mind and the tongue quicker. If they did personally have an issue with it's use I likely wouldn't use it around them, out of respect for a friend.

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People have been saying "context", and "depends on the situation". Well, the OP gave the context he was referring to by mentioning the "other poll". Was the other poll talking about situations where you "address" people by their racial designation instead of their name? It is pretty clear to me that this thread is not about addressing a person by something other than their name, even though people seem to want it to be. I wonder why that is...

In context, the OP was also not about whether the word comes to mind due to whether or not it is outdated. It is more about the scenario where it happens to come to mind, and you had the choice between using it or using the word Native American, would you use 'redskin'? Whether it is outdated and unlikely to come to mind is irrelevant. And can you provide a context where using 'colored' would be non-offensive? (Other than joking)

I have never yet had a Native American friend who has let me know that 'redskin' is acceptable to them. Interesting scenario, but talk about an exceedingly rare context. Hardly worth mentioning, most likely.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Higgins86 said:

Oh please "Lizzie run's with horses" you speak for every Native American in America? You now feel confident that you could walk up to any Native American in America, call them redskin and you wouldn't get a few smacks in the mouth? Bull****.

Like anything every person is different. My best friend is from Pakistani origin and often refers to himself as a Paki but he doesn't speak for all Pakistanis in the UK so it would not be correct for me to assume that I could also call others Paki. Also something many of you forget is that you don't have to be the target to find something offensive I am not Jewish but I am very offended my the word kike.

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I find this comment to be more offensive a slur towards this group than any use of the word "redskin" I have so far encountered in everyday life. "Redskin" only speaks to a physical attribute while your comment speaks to their culture.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

annata said:

the Washington Native Americans doesn't exactly roll off the tongue..[

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/QUOTE]




You have to work with it for a while.

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Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

CycloneWanderer said:

I find this comment to be more offensive a slur towards this group than any use of the word "redskin" I have so far encountered in everyday life. "Redskin" only speaks to a physical attribute while your comment speaks to their culture.

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Yes that was kind of the point...

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

tres borrachos said:

No, I think the OP was ridiculous, as evidenced by my post. Most people wouldn't call someone a name that is a reflection on a physical attribute, unless there is some context to it, and you know the person. If my husband was Native American, would I call him Redskin to his face? Sure, if we were jokingly or otherwise calling each other names other than our real names. If he said "Hey Blondie" I may respond with "Yes Redskin?". My husband is very pale (I am very dark - aka "Black Irish" with blonde hair), and I often call him "Paleskin" or "Casper".

Would I call a stranger "Redskin" to his face? No. Nor would I call a stranger any other name that is a reflection on his appearance.

So it's a ridiculous question, unless it's directed at the people who tend to call strangers names that are commentaries on physical attributes. Except for kids, I don't know of too many people who are into name calling.

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You don't think the OP was about the situation where it is necessary to use a person's racial designation, and you have a choice between something polite, like Native American, or something else, like redskin?

You think instead the OP was about something ridiculous, like calling someone by their appearance when addressing them?

You are being honest about this, right?

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Higgins86 said:

Yes that was kind of the point...

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Please hold for a moment, I need to contact my lawyers.

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Dezaad said:

You don't think the OP was about the situation where it is necessary to use a person's racial designation, and you have a choice between something polite, like Native American, or something else, like redskin?

You think instead the OP was about something ridiculous, like calling someone by their appearance when addressing them?

You are being honest about this, right?

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Yes, I'm being honest about this.

Please be honest back. How many times have you walked up to a total stranger and called that person a name based on an obvious physical attribute or ethnicity since you've been an adult?

I also wouldn't call someone a "Native American". I don't meet someone named "Vito Minelli" and say "Hey, an Italian!". Do you? If I meet someone with an obvious British accent, I don't say "Hey Limey" or "Hey Brit". Do you?

Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

There is a whole other group of people I would gladly call a redskin to their face. For some reason, they are proud to be redskins.