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Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face? [W:166]

Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

  • Total voters
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Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Bodhisattva said:
And now blacks can't move? There is a black American teacher at my school that moved from Arkansas to New Zealand... I somehow think you are wrong.
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Blacks cannot escape racial injustice. It is systemic. It permeates society and puts them at a disadvantage in housing, employment and the justice system. One cannot compare isolated events of individual actions with systemic injustice.

Just because whites are sometimes attacked by blacks does not mean blacks wield majority power or have the ability to perpetuate systemic injustice.
 
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Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Bodhisattva said:
No. You haven't explained how my choosing to be a respectful person equals a dodge... and capitulation? Get over yourself with that idiotic logic. :lol:
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You have convinced yourself that my scenario dialogue is calling a person by 'something other than their name', and used that as a dodge to avoid the point of the OP, and my subsequent aforementioned scenario. If you won't address the point, then it is perfectly reasonable for any observer to conclude you are avoiding it for the purpose of avoiding the attendant admission that would go along with addressing it. This is something I never do, and if I REALLY thought the question was ridiculous, I might say that, and THEN go ahead and address the point. Because, I have intellectual integrity. So, I'll not be 'getting over myself' anytime soon. Sorry, not sorry.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
Blacks cannot escape racial injustice. It is systemic. It permeates society and puts them at a disadvantage in housing, employment and the justice system. One cannot compare isolated events of individual actions with systemic injustice.

Just because whites are sometimes attacked by blacks does not mean they wield majority power or have the ability to perpetuate systemic injustice.
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You have a well thought out argument. We have been through this before as well and I disagree with you, as before, regarding racism and reverse racism.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Dezaad said:
You have convinced yourself that my scenario dialogue is calling a person by 'something other than their name', and used that as a dodge to avoid the point of the OP, and my subsequent aforementioned scenario. If you won't address the point, then it is perfectly reasonable for any observer to conclude you are avoiding it for the purpose of avoiding the attendant admission that would go along with addressing it. This is something I never do, and if I REALLY thought the question was ridiculous, I might say that, and THEN go ahead and address the point. Because, I have intellectual integrity. So, I'll not be 'getting over myself' anytime soon. Sorry, not sorry.
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No. Your scenario is stupid.

You: You have an interesting name, Soaring Eagle, is it?
Him: Yes, I am a Native American
You: Ahh... a Redskin.

That is so idiotic that I can barely stand it. What am I supposed to be? Some 14 year-old jerk?

How about:

You: You have an interesting name, Soaring Eagle, is it?
Him: Yes, I am a Native American
You: Nice to meet you, what tribe are you from?

No dodge... just an understanding regarding the stupidity of the scenario.

It finally hit me that your scenario is a False Dilemma

False Dilemma / Bifurcation Fallacy

The bifurcation fallacy is committed when a false dilemma is presented, i.e. when someone is asked to choose between two options when there is at least one other option available. Of course, arguments that restrict the options to more than two but less than there really are are similarly fallacious.


Logical Fallacies» False Dilemma / Bifurcation Fallacy

Game over... you lose.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Bodhisattva said:
No. Your scenario is stupid.

You: You have an interesting name, Soaring Eagle, is it?
Him: Yes, I am a Native American
You: Ahh... a Redskin.

That is so idiotic that I can barely stand it. What am I supposed to be? Some 14 year-old jerk?

How about:

You: You have an interesting name, Soaring Eagle, is it?
Him: Yes, I am a Native American
You: Nice to meet you, what tribe are you from?

No dodge... just an understanding regarding the stupidity of the scenario.

It finally hit me that your scenario is a False Dilemma

False Dilemma / Bifurcation Fallacy

The bifurcation fallacy is committed when a false dilemma is presented, i.e. when someone is asked to choose between two options when there is at least one other option available. Of course, arguments that restrict the options to more than two but less than there really are are similarly fallacious.


Logical Fallacies» False Dilemma / Bifurcation Fallacy

Game over... you lose.
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Your avoidance runs deep. I presented no dilemma at all. A dilemma is not necessary to my point, and you deciding that there is a false bifurcation is just you deepening your avoidance.

You could have said:

"I think your scenario is stupid because I would never let the conversation take such a turn, but to address your point: if I did find myself in a situation where I wanted to mention the person's race, I wouldn't use 'redskin' to describe their race, because I realize it is a slur. "

Or you could have said:

"I think your scenario is stupid because I would never let the conversation take such a turn, but to address your point: if I did find myself in a situation where I wanted to mention the person's race, I would use 'redskin' to describe their race, because I think it is a valid way to describe Native American. "

But, instead, you chose not to address the point, choosing instead to focus on the thing that is beside the point, which is how ridiculous you supposedly think the scenario is. Then you doubled down on that avoidance by coming up with a supposed bifurcation fallacy interpretation of my post.

Avoidance = capitulation.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Crosscheck said:
Maybe it is regional. Here in the Northwest many of the tribes prefer Native. You often find Native Pride tattoos or bumper stickers among them.
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Native...maybe. But not Native American. Best bet...go tribal if you know it. And if you dont, respect enough to ask.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Peter King said:
the R-word for native Americans is like the N-word for African Americans.
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And which N-word is that?

You DO know that 90% of Indians interviewed about the Redskins team nickname care far less about the name than they do the rampant poverty, abuse, addiction, unemployment, and every other actual PROBLEM that plagues the Indian people in reservations across the country...right? Or that several Indian Schools have the team Mascot as 'Redskins'? Face it...the only people this poutrage plays with are soft white liberals who pretend to care about the nickname but really couldnt give half a **** about the real problems they face if you outright GAVE them two spare ****s you had in your garage.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

VanceMack said:
And which N-word is that?

You DO know that 90% of Indians interviewed about the Redskins team nickname care far less about the name than they do the rampant poverty, abuse, addiction, unemployment, and every other actual PROBLEM that plagues the Indian people in reservations across the country...right? Or that several Indian Schools have the team Mascot as 'Redskins'? Face it...the only people this poutrage plays with are soft white liberals who pretend to care about the nickname but really couldnt give half a **** about the real problems they face if you outright GAVE them two spare ****s you had in your garage.
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You know exactly the N-word I am talking about, why do you want me to say it. I already said I do not like using such derogatory slurs for people. They are African American or whatever they want to call themselves, the same goes for native Americans.

You are right, most will say there are more pressing problems for the Native American people but that does not mean we can ignore this issue when it is being raised by the Native Americans and as it is an issue, some in that community clearly think it is a big issue for them.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Peter King said:
You know exactly the N-word I am talking about, why do you want me to say it. I already said I do not like using such derogatory slurs for people. They are African American or whatever they want to call themselves, the same goes for native Americans.

You are right, most will say there are more pressing problems for the Native American people but that does not mean we can ignore this issue when it is being raised by the Native Americans and as it is an issue, some in that community clearly think it is a big issue for them.
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You are petrified. Thats hysterical.


Nah. You dont ignore this because its a 'cause' for you to cling to. Its cheap. "Looky...I CARE about you poor widdle Native American snoogums...yes I do!"

Horse****. Your pretense of care is limited to the most ridiculous and irrelevant of the actual real world problems they face. It speaks volumes about all of you.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

VanceMack said:
You are petrified. Thats hysterical.


Nah. You dont ignore this because its a 'cause' for you to cling to. Its cheap. "Looky...I CARE about you poor widdle Native American snoogums...yes I do!"

Horse****. Your pretense of care is limited to the most ridiculous and irrelevant of the actual real world problems they face. It speaks volumes about all of you.
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why should I be petrified? I do not even life in the USA so it is neither a big issue for me or a "cause".

I just don't like using racial slurs, wow, evil me. How dare I not want to use words meant to demean and insult people.:roll:

And it is not all about this name issue for that NFL team, the question was would you say it to someones face and I just said that I do not, not in their face and not behind their backs.

If you have a problem with that then so be it.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

I think it's interesting that people wouldn't seriously refer to anybody as a redskin outside of a joking environment. I wonder why that is? I mean can you imagine if that sort of language was regularly used by media?

"Today, a man was found murdered in an apartment complex in Arizona. Neighbors described him as a small stature redskin male who kept mostly to himself."

Or what about police?

"We are currently in pursuit of a redskin female. Please be advised, she is armed."

What about advertisement?

"Coming Soon: Maddea's Redskin Reunion"

Or maybe if it were used by politicians?

"Today, we are gathered here to pay respect to all of those code talkers who overcame racism against redskins."

What about history books?

"Sitting Bull was the first of many prominent redskins to not really put up with the US government's policies."

What about talk radio?

"I mean, look at these redskin leaders voting for Democrats in droves."

Now replace redskin with white/black and... tell me again how redskin isn'ta slur when you wouldn't really use it in any type of professional or even a serious context. It basically takes a situation where nobody is serious for that word to not be seen as a slur. Well, if that's the case then nigger is no longer a slur because black comedians use it. :roll:
 
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Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Of course not. Unless I know that person very well and we're goofing off. First of all my Momma raised me right and even if she hadn't I really can't imagine why I would refer to anyone I just met by the color of their skin. People have names.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

If we admit that red skin is a slur, then we've lost our freedom to be insensitive pricks.

 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Arcana XV said:
Of course not. Unless I know that person very well and we're goofing off. First of all my Momma raised me right and even if she hadn't I really can't imagine why I would refer to anyone I just met by the color of their skin. People have names.
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Says it all.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

the Washington Native Americans doesn't exactly roll off the tongue..
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Logical fallacy = you lost.

FACT.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Yes I would. And I wouldn't mind being called a paleskin to my face by a redskin.

And if someone doesn't like it, grow a thicker skin on the cheek.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Amadeus said:
If we admit that red skin is a slur, then we've lost our freedom to be insensitive pricks.

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Perfect...a faux Indian crying a faux tear over a faux cause.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Deuce said:
This is a better question than the other poll.

If your answer is "no," you should ponder why not. And maybe even post why not in this thread.
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If they're friends. I just might. As with anything else in this world it just depends on context.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Since I don't wander about calling anyone blackey and whitey or browny, why would I call anyone redskin? I just call them by their first or last name.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Dezaad said:
Come on people, you would all avoid calling a Native American a redskin in a non-joking manner. That is the question in this poll, and making it about 'joking' is just a dodge of the question.

Conversation with a person to whom you had been just introduced:

You: Interesting last name :)
New Person: Oh, thank you, I am Native American.
You: Oh, a redskin.

NOT going to happen.
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In a situation as you describe here no, I wouldn't. But then I also wouldn't call some black guy that introduced themselves as "oh, a black" either. Same goes for whites, chinese, arab, or any other thing. I'd use my manners that my mother taught me and say "Nice to meet you Mr./Mrs. <insert last name here>". Or just simply say "hello".

All that you're doing is trying to take one specific context and apply it to ALL contexts in order to proclaim that it's a slur. Hate to tell ya this but thats just not how it works. Context ALWAYS matters. Why do you think that black people can call other black people "niggers" and no one bats an eye...yet if some other race did it (particularly whites) the chains of war are unleashed? Context is what makes something offensive or not. Not the words themselves. If I was to go up to my wife and in all seriousness called her the B word she'd have a right to be offeneded and would no doubt slap the crap outta me. However if I went up to my wife and said the same thing in a joking manner all that she would do is call me some similar name. Possibly even the same. :mrgreen: Words are only offensive if they are meant to be offensive. If they're not meant to be offensive then they are not. It really is that simple.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Kal'Stang said:
In a situation as you describe here no, I wouldn't. But then I also wouldn't call some black guy that introduced themselves as "oh, a black" either. Same goes for whites, chinese, arab, or any other thing. I'd use my manners that my mother taught me and say "Nice to meet you Mr./Mrs. <insert last name here>". Or just simply say "hello".

All that you're doing is trying to take one specific context and apply it to ALL contexts in order to proclaim that it's a slur. Hate to tell ya this but thats just not how it works. Context ALWAYS matters. Why do you think that black people can call other black people "niggers" and no one bats an eye...yet if some other race did it (particularly whites) the chains of war are unleashed? Context is what makes something offensive or not. Not the words themselves. If I was to go up to my wife and in all seriousness called her the B word she'd have a right to be offeneded and would no doubt slap the crap outta me. However if I went up to my wife and said the same thing in a joking manner all that she would do is call me some similar name. Possibly even the same. :mrgreen: Words are only offensive if they are meant to be offensive. If they're not meant to be offensive then they are not. It really is that simple.
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That makes a lot of sense. But why are offensive words as b..,n..., even in our vocabulary, jokingly or otherwise? I don't find it very funny even if a black guy calls another n....
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

lizzie said:
Well, actually I have done so, but I have a good many NA friends, and they know it isn't an insult coming from me, but that I am kidding with them.
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The old " its not racist because I have friends who are natives" ( one of them is also half black and in a wheelchair). Classic white person argument.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Lovebug said:
That makes a lot of sense. But why are offensive words as b..,n..., even in our vocabulary, jokingly or otherwise? I don't find it very funny even if a black guy calls another n....
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Because humans have the capacity to hate and the ability to express that hate. But at the same time we have the capacity to not hate, and the ability to express that also. This is why context matters more than the words by themselves. It is that context the determines if we are in hate mode, or not hate mode.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

*facepalm*

The premise of this thread is clear... and also absurd. The OP believes they have cleverly conceived a question that nobody with an opposing point-of-view can answer, hence proving their own point-of-view. Unfortunately for them the question is so full of holes and off-target as to be meaningless, and as such is really nothing but a bait question. It was a train wreck before the original post was completed.
 
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