View Poll Results: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

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  • Yes

    17 26.56%
  • No

    47 73.44%
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Thread: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face? [W:166]

  1. #241
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Its not as much changing the name I care about as much as people telling others what should be considered offensive or not.
    In general I agree with this. I may not agree with the reasons someone is offended, but it's not my place to tell them they shouldn't be offended. At the same time, it's not other peoples place to tell any of us that we SHOULD be offended.

    Some people arguing whether or not people SHOULD be offended, which I think is kind of a pointless debate. What can be argued though is the REASONS someone is or isn't offended. Suggesting someones reasons for being offended, or not offended, are wrong isn't the same as suggesting that they shouldn't or should be offended.

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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    I voted no because I would not call anyone redskin at any time.

  3. #243
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I work with them on an at least weekly and often daily basis. Forall your "card carrying" bull****, the only time you get twisted about "Indian affairs" is over a sports team nickname. You ought to be embarrassed. Hell...you ought to be ****ing ashamed of yourself.

    But at least we have you now calling them American Indians and not Native Americans. Hell...thats a start. You know...for a card carrying 'Creek'. Since...you know...you care and stuff.

    How.
    Actually I haven't mentioned anything about being angry at the nickname. Not only are you an idiot for assuming a lot about people but you lack in reading comprehension.

    I called you out for your comments about liberals not caring about American Indians by asking if you believe President Obama has done enough for them. You of course completely ignore the issue and go on some idiotic rant about who I am and what I do. You're a lot of dumb hot air. That's about it.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  4. #244
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    In general I agree with this. I may not agree with the reasons someone is offended, but it's not my place to tell them they shouldn't be offended. At the same time, it's not other peoples place to tell any of us that we SHOULD be offended.

    Some people arguing whether or not people SHOULD be offended, which I think is kind of a pointless debate. What can be argued though is the REASONS someone is or isn't offended. Suggesting someones reasons for being offended, or not offended, are wrong isn't the same as suggesting that they shouldn't or should be offended.
    Well I would ask this, if supposedly the mascot is a tribute to American Indians, then why the hell wouldn't you change if they didn't want the supposed tribute? Change it to the Washington Kikes or Shylocks. Make it a tribute to Snyder's ancestry.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  5. #245
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Actually I haven't mentioned anything about being angry at the nickname. Not only are you an idiot for assuming a lot about people but you lack in reading comprehension.

    I called you out for your comments about liberals not caring about American Indians by asking if you believe President Obama has done enough for them. You of course completely ignore the issue and go on some idiotic rant about who I am and what I do. You're a lot of dumb hot air. That's about it.
    Liberals DONT care about American Indians and for all your bull****, neither do you. Do you know WHY we arent having a discourse on the plight of the American Indian or what Obama may or may not have done? It is because the only time you or any other liber surfaces on Indians it is to whine bitch and moan about a stupid sports team logo.

    You 'claim' to be somehow tribal affiliated...and yet THIS is the ONLY time you ever so much as bring issues up. You have NEVER...E V E R...expressed concern about the poverty, unemployment, education, unwed mothers, domestic violence, sexual assault, substance abuse, growing gang problems, violent crimes and other problems that are a major component of res life. NEVER. E V E R. Oh but you are gonna surface any time you get to do your fauxcahontas act on THIS subject.

    Hot air? You ought to be embarrassed. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

  6. #246
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well I would ask this, if supposedly the mascot is a tribute to American Indians, then why the hell wouldn't you change if they didn't want the supposed tribute?
    If I honestly believed the words entire history, as a reference to native americans, had been one of a derogatory and disparaging fashion I'd be more apt to believe it should be changed. If I honeslty believed the most common use of the word today was as a means of referring to american indians in a slurring fashion I'd be more apt to change the name. If I honestly believed the intent of the team in choosing the name was insulting or belittling in nature i would be more apt to change the name. If I honestly believed that a majority of native americans felt that the name should be changed because it deeply offended them then I would likely be more apt to believe it should be changed. If I honestly believed the name was causing some kind of significant "harm" to Native Americans in this country I would likely be more apt to change the name.

    However...

    Based on what I've researched and read regarding the history of the word, it has not always been used as a means of derogatorily or disparagingly referring to native americans and is not ALWAYS used in a slurring fashion.

    Based on what I've personally experienced, various means of lay research (such as examining internet searches for the use of the word), and talks with others I believe the word is most commonly used in the vast majority of this country as a means of referencing the Football team and not as a derogatory means of referring to native americans.

    Based on what I've read and researched with regards to the origins of the name of the team, the steps they've taken over the years with other aspects related to the name (such as their current logo), and common sense as it relates to the naming of sports teams I simply don't believe the name was done with an intent to disparage or insult or degrade or mock or disrespect american indians.

    Based on the only polls on the issue I've seen conducted, individuals I've spoken to in my area and when attending the NNALEA conference, interviews and statements made by some native americans in the media and online, input from individuals who have researched and visited reservations gathering opinions, and the presense of predominantly native american schools who themselves use the name I don't believe "native americans", as an all encompassing over all group, feel that the name should change and I do believe the vast majority hover between "don't want it to change" and "don't really care either way".

    Based on an understanding of the challenges facing Native Americans on and off the reservations in this country, and the lack of actual tangible evidence of any "harm" being directed towards native americans due to the name other than some peoples opinion that it "Stereotypes" them which inherently "harms" them, I can't honestly say there is any "harm" coming to the american indian community over all due to the name, let alone "harm" that could be considered "significant" when stacked agaisnt the multitude of troubles affecting large portions of the community.

    This is all combined with a belief that many, in what I think are a minority, of those offended by the name are, in part, offended based on a spurious and incorrect assertion, propogated by a questionable activist source, that the word means, or is originated from a reference to, "scalped native americans"....an assertion used as the basis for offense often by those who claim offense, including a recent Salon writer and a tribal leader in another story I read recently.

    So no...I don't find it offensive. I understand some DO find it offensive, and they're free to do so...but I don't, and I'm not going to change my mind based on a false premise that they constantly attempt to use to justify WHY they feel it's right to tell others, or attempt to guilt others, into being offended.

  7. #247
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    If I honestly believed the words entire history, as a reference to native americans, had been one of a derogatory and disparaging fashion I'd be more apt to believe it should be changed.
    Absolutism as an excuse? haha

    If I honeslty believed the most common use of the word today was as a means of referring to american indians in a slurring fashion I'd be more apt to change the name.
    Referring to a group by skin color is inherently a slur.

    So no...I don't find it offensive.
    Offense is irrelevant.

  8. #248
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Absolutism as an excuse? haha



    Referring to a group by skin color is inherently a slur.



    Offense is irrelevant.
    Apparently only those that are offended are a bunch of politically bent Indians playing a bunch of liberal crusaders for all they are worth. It has been shown before that 90% of the Indians in this country dont CARE...but hey...as was posted...go to the actual source...

    “What a bunch of BS,” said Don. “Keith Olbermann’s secretary called me looking for an interview, but I don’t care for him (Olbermann denies attempting to contact Wetzel). So I decided to call you. I’ve known you for a long time, my friend, and I know you’ll tell this story the right way.”

    “It needs to be said that an Indian from the state of Montana created that logo, and he did it the right way,” Don said. “It represents the Red Nation and it’s something to be proud of.”

  9. #249
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Apparently only those that are offended
    Offense is irrelevant.

  10. #250
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Offense is irrelevant.
    Eco...my ancestry and family is from Denmark. If someone speaks harshly of Denmark...even though it doesnt bother me...will you be my hero?


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