View Poll Results: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

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Thread: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face? [W:166]

  1. #231
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    To be fair it took MULTIPLE posts back and forth between us before I finally got your point and got to a point where the core of your point was something I actually understood and saw as reasonable. Your initial points regarding the "context" of the OP still don't make sense to me...but I realized that you weren't really talking about context of the OP, but actually just making ASSUMPTIONS as to the most benign and straight forward contrived manner that the OP could've been placed as.
    Am I getting the False Dilemma wrong then?
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  2. #232
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    The Choctaw word for red people.....Oklahoma. They must change the name of their state. It's racist. Where do we draw the line?
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  3. #233
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    The Choctaw word for red people.....Oklahoma. They must change the name of their state. It's racist. Where do we draw the line?
    If you want to trace the etymology of every word or term, you're going to be in trouble. 'Juggernaut' was intended as a Hindu slur, but it made its way into the vernacular. No one is suggesting that we take extreme measures and disassemble every word or term that has offensive origins.

    If you want to offend some people, use the term. If you don't, then avoid it. That's as far as I'd be willing to go in terms of 'censorship'.

  4. #234
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Am I getting the False Dilemma wrong then?
    I think you have the false dilemma notion correct, I just think now that I better understand Dezaad's point that it doens't really apply.

    Essentially the issue is this...

    The OP posted something sans any kind of real content. They posted a big, broad, opened ended question that has a myriad of potential "situations" one could imagine that would apply to it.

    Since the OP failed to provide any context what so ever, posters basically had to interject their own context into the situation. Some did so by treating the OP's question as if it related to an instance of just walking up to someone and going "Hey [racial term]". Some treated it as ANY situtaion, including joking situations. Others treated it as if he was meaning specifically in instances where for some reason you would be referencing a person as a racial term. And still others responded in kind of a wholistic way touching upon multiple situations.

    Deezad was basically criticizing those who look at the OP and it's AMAZING lack of context, and decided to only respond to it from the stand point of going up to someone and going "Hey [racial term]" because Deezad beleives that wasn't the intent of the OP, and as such a person interested in honest debate wouldn't have assumed that most extreme situation as being what the OP meant.

    So indeed, Deezad is recognizing that there ARE multiple options available as to what situations one thinks the OP is referring to. He's simply suggesting that those who ONLY settle on the most absurd of such situations, and spend their time debating based off that point, are engaging in a dishonest form of debate.

    Where I likely part ways with him is his suggestion that somehow that it speaks worse of those who are doing it than it does with the OP who failed to provide any meaningful context at all. This is in part because I believe the lack of context was meaningful to attempt to better push the clear agenda that motivated his question. When a question is seemingly asked from an inherently dishonest stand point and with a dishonest intent, I don't have as big of an issue with people engaging it in a similarly low way. I don't necessarily find those who JUST do that to be making a great case, but I don't somehow grade them lower in my reading than the OP whose style and method they're building off of.

  5. #235
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    If you want to offend some people, use the term. If you don't, then avoid it. That's as far as I'd be willing to go in terms of 'censorship'.
    Actually, a more accurate representation would likely be....

    If you don't mind offending some people use the term. If you don't mind offending other people, then avoid using it.

    I think there are few people who are actively WANTING to offend, but rather most simply are not bothered if someone does take offense. Though I am sure there are some dicks out there who would possibly now use it BECAUSE they want to be dicks and want to offend people...but most are probably doing it without a desire to offend, but simply without concern if it does have such a result.

    I can tell you that where I live I will find FAR more instances of people being offended if I'm actively making an effort to avoid saying that word than I would if I said it.

  6. #236
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Lets start with the sheer dont give a ****edness of every person here that posts their outrage over the 'slur' and has never said word one (or has never done the first thing to help) about the real and actual problems facing the Indian communities at large.

    You are all full of ****. The only person here I have ever seen be honest about it is Eco. He at leasts admits he doesnt care about Indians and merely posts because he doesnt like slurs. The rest of you? Its just another race rant.
    Weird, I'm pretty involved in American Indian issues. My fiance is a card carrying Cherokee and I'm a card carrying Creek. Her parents lived on a reservation and my grandmother did. We both grew up in areas dominated by American Indians. In other words....like the majority of your posts you're talking out of your ass.

    You don't know **** about American Indians but consider yourself an expert on what they should find offensive or not. You don't give a **** about American Indian issues but feel you act like you are some moral authority because others give maybe an ounce more of a ****. Grow up.
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  7. #237
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Weird, I'm pretty involved in American Indian issues. My fiance is a card carrying Cherokee and I'm a card carrying Creek. Her parents lived on a reservation and my grandmother did. We both grew up in areas dominated by American Indians. In other words....like the majority of your posts you're talking out of your ass.

    You don't know **** about American Indians but consider yourself an expert on what they should find offensive or not. You don't give a **** about American Indian issues but feel you act like you are some moral authority because others give maybe an ounce more of a ****. Grow up.
    Can I ask you how you and your wife feel about the name as a professional football team and do you support them changing their name or not?
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  8. #238
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    Can I ask you how you and your wife feel about the name as a professional football team and do you support them changing their name or not?
    I honestly don't care one way or another.

    For my fiance it is an issue.

    Its not as much changing the name I care about as much as people telling others what should be considered offensive or not. My fiance grew up in an area where American Indians were looked down upon and pretty much treated like garbage.
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  9. #239
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I think you have the false dilemma notion correct, I just think now that I better understand Dezaad's point that it doens't really apply.

    Essentially the issue is this...

    The OP posted something sans any kind of real content. They posted a big, broad, opened ended question that has a myriad of potential "situations" one could imagine that would apply to it.

    Since the OP failed to provide any context what so ever, posters basically had to interject their own context into the situation. Some did so by treating the OP's question as if it related to an instance of just walking up to someone and going "Hey [racial term]". Some treated it as ANY situtaion, including joking situations. Others treated it as if he was meaning specifically in instances where for some reason you would be referencing a person as a racial term. And still others responded in kind of a wholistic way touching upon multiple situations.

    Deezad was basically criticizing those who look at the OP and it's AMAZING lack of context, and decided to only respond to it from the stand point of going up to someone and going "Hey [racial term]" because Deezad beleives that wasn't the intent of the OP, and as such a person interested in honest debate wouldn't have assumed that most extreme situation as being what the OP meant.

    So indeed, Deezad is recognizing that there ARE multiple options available as to what situations one thinks the OP is referring to. He's simply suggesting that those who ONLY settle on the most absurd of such situations, and spend their time debating based off that point, are engaging in a dishonest form of debate.

    Where I likely part ways with him is his suggestion that somehow that it speaks worse of those who are doing it than it does with the OP who failed to provide any meaningful context at all. This is in part because I believe the lack of context was meaningful to attempt to better push the clear agenda that motivated his question. When a question is seemingly asked from an inherently dishonest stand point and with a dishonest intent, I don't have as big of an issue with people engaging it in a similarly low way. I don't necessarily find those who JUST do that to be making a great case, but I don't somehow grade them lower in my reading than the OP whose style and method they're building off of.
    Good break down and you have given it more thought that I did as I was only interested in show his logical fallacy after he would not accept my interpretation of the OP. I had no intention of understanding him due to his fairly obtuse manner of looking at this OP, IMO.
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  10. #240
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    Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Weird, I'm pretty involved in American Indian issues. My fiance is a card carrying Cherokee and I'm a card carrying Creek. Her parents lived on a reservation and my grandmother did. We both grew up in areas dominated by American Indians. In other words....like the majority of your posts you're talking out of your ass.

    You don't know **** about American Indians but consider yourself an expert on what they should find offensive or not. You don't give a **** about American Indian issues but feel you act like you are some moral authority because others give maybe an ounce more of a ****. Grow up.
    I work with them on an at least weekly and often daily basis. Forall your "card carrying" bull****, the only time you get twisted about "Indian affairs" is over a sports team nickname. You ought to be embarrassed. Hell...you ought to be ****ing ashamed of yourself.

    But at least we have you now calling them American Indians and not Native Americans. Hell...thats a start. You know...for a card carrying 'Creek'. Since...you know...you care and stuff.

    How.

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