View Poll Results: Should we pay for water?

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  • Yes

    59 73.75%
  • No

    15 18.75%
  • Maybe

    6 7.50%
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Thread: Should we pay for water?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Than you really didn't have to respond

    No, but water companies would love you to keep perpetuating that.

    No, it's not.
    Then you have no clue as to living without someone else supplying your water or how water districts work.

  2. #42
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Have you thought about why that is? MUNICIPAL water districts require a basic level of funding to continue operations and provide masses of people in their district with clean, safe water. To keep this at a cost even the poor can afford they require that all within the district participate in the funding. The more folks who go their own way, the more costly the necessary service becomes for everyone else in the district. Remember, these districts are non-profit.
    Oh please, that has jack **** to do with it. The mere fact that many water networks are of vastly different sizes alone falsifies your argument; I leave that as an exercise to you to figure out why. This is one of the great advantages of a public service vs. a private service: A public service can be allowed to run at a loss if its benefit to society exceeds that loss, whereas a private service typically must run at a profit even if the value of its harm to society exceeds that profit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Don't people already learn that kind of stuff in school?
    They should. But even if they do, there's nothing wrong with having occasional refresher courses on life skills.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Don't people already learn that kind of stuff in school?
    Not since the 50s. Really, I'm old, but not that old, Didn't anyone here live without running water in their home? We collected our from the public spring. Or you could go down to the creed and haul it up by the bucket. Went into our cistern, which we had to religiously keep clean.

  4. #44
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If it needs provided to you how can it be a right?
    The state can guarantee it is provided to all households. Something can be provided to you and still be considered a right.


  5. #45
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yeah, except it's not and never has been, anywhere on the globe.
    I doubt they charged for use of caves back before there were houses. Since he is a socialist and supports the greenie weanies, that is probably what he wants for the future.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  6. #46
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So what? Any system needs labor.
    True.

    And taxes are the labor of others. What you advocate when you claim water should be provided to all, is that all people have earned the right to have a commodity provided to them, completely irrespective of circumstances and the labor they have or have not provided. This is different than saying no one should be blocked from a source of water. I don't think you are going to find anyone - not even the most ridiculous caricature of a fat-cat capitalist - who thinks people should be blocked from resources. The common logical fallacy favored by those on the left side of the spectrum is to conflate access with provision. This is a clear example.

    To illustrate the fallacy in effect, take the example of healthcare: I do not think I should pay for someone else's healthcare... and this does not mean I want the poor to die. I also do not think someone should pay for my healthcare, and this does not mean I want to go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt and eventual bankruptcy. It also does not mean I am rich, or cruel, or stupid. It means I advocate a market based approach to solving the problem largely created when the government started putting their dirty little hands into the health system.

    In the case of basic staples of life, like water, labor should be required for use, be it the price of a well and a pump, or a fair use fee for municipal services. Baring that, go down to the river and boil your drinking water. I don't care. But don't expect me or the guy next to me to pay for it because you can't provide for yourself (barring mental illness and legitimate disability).

    If the air we breathe required expensive treatment and capture systems in order to provide oxygen safely, I would also advocate people get off of their ass and find a way to earn this commodity, too.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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  7. #47
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    The state can guarantee it is provided to all households. Something can be provided to you and still be considered a right.
    You mean the same "state" that you constantly bitch about? The one that has never actually been able to efficiently do anything?
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  8. #48
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Oh please, that has jack **** to do with it. The mere fact that many water networks are of vastly different sizes alone falsifies your argument; I leave that as an exercise to you to figure out why. This is one of the great advantages of a public service vs. a private service: A public service can be allowed to run at a loss if its benefit to society exceeds that loss, whereas a private service typically must run at a profit even if the value of its harm to society exceeds that profit.
    Interesting, I detail how municipal water districts work and you, who obviously know nothing about it, think that the size of the district has anything to do with it. You, again obviously, have no clue as to how tight their budgets are or the service they render non-profit.

    You want to live like sardines, where the basic resources of life have to be shipped in to accommodate your lifestyle, that's going to cost. Even public enterprises cannot operate at a loss forever. That just pushes the community deeper in debt.

  9. #49
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    The reason I brought this up, because if a major US city has half its population unable to afford basic water supply, it speaks to how broken our capitalist system is becoming.

    Walmart advertises, they'll provide $250 billion worth of new US production. That's one company trying to rebuild public image, with a $.25 trillion dollars. Yet half of the citizens of Detroit can't afford freaking water, something is wrong.

    A socialist gov't isn't the answer but it's going to become a necessity if corporations don't put something back in, instead of leveraging their ability to hoard money. Starbucks is going to start offering a free college education to its employees.

    Paying workers more, with better benefits would be a big step in the right direction, and stimulate the economy dramatically putting funds in the hands of spenders.
    A municipal water system is hardly an example of a capitalist economy at work. It's actually quite the opposite.

  10. #50
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Interesting, I detail how municipal water districts work and you, who obviously know nothing about it, think that the size of the district has anything to do with it. You, again obviously, have no clue as to how tight their budgets are or the service they render non-profit.

    You want to live like sardines, where the basic resources of life have to be shipped in to accommodate your lifestyle, that's going to cost. Even public enterprises cannot operate at a loss forever. That just pushes the community deeper in debt.
    If we made a ranked list of the most important inventions to modern society, I guarantee you that running water would easily crack the top 5. Maybe even the top 3. There is a very clear reason why access to running water and disease proliferation are inversely related. So your whole cost argument is pretty much shot. Having running water is AT LEAST as important as having police and other basic civil protections and institutions, no matter how much it costs to get it. The only alternative is to pack up and move.

    Now if you're trying to say that people who live lavish lifestyles consume more resources and that they need to scale back, then tone down the rhetoric and in exchange, I'll hear you out. Because then you would find that we would have some common ground here.
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