View Poll Results: Should we pay for water?

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  • Yes

    59 73.75%
  • No

    15 18.75%
  • Maybe

    6 7.50%
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Thread: Should we pay for water?

  1. #281
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Ensuring access to water is usually a good way to not promote anarchy.
    The U.S. has consistently opposed the U.N. push to define clean water as a fundamental human right. In 2007, the United States government submitted a detailed explanation of its views to the Office of the United Nations Commissioner for Human Rights. In it, the U.S. recognized the importance of providing water while rejecting the view that a “right to water” exists under current formulations of international human rights law.

    The 2007 U.S. rebuttal to the U.N. argued: Understanding how the United States addresses these issues [equitable access to safe drinking water and sanitation] requires an understanding of the U.S. system of federalism, under which, state and local authorities play the primary role in promoting access to safe drinking water and sanitation. Over time, the U.S. Congress and the courts have increased the involvement of the federal government in certain areas. Today here are a wide range of federal laws and regulations aimed at promoting safe drinking water and sanitation. However, state sovereignty over many water issues remains.

    The Barlow report charged that Detroit’s water crisis has resulted from decades of public policy that have put corporate business and profit ahead of the public good and human rights. The report alleges: The case of water cut-offs in the City of Detroit speaks to the deep racial divides and intractable economic and social inequality in access to services within the United States. The burden of paying for city services has fallen onto the residents who have stayed within the economically depressed city, most of whom are African-American. These residents have seen water rates rise by 119 per cent within the last decade. With official, understated unemployment rates at a record high and the official, understated poverty rate at about 40 percent, Detroit water bills are unaffordable to a significant portion of the population.

    U.N. to intervene in Detroit water shutoffs
    I simply find it ridiculous that we clothe, house, feed and provide water for illegal immigrants, pour billions into overseas aid but won't even supply US citizens, with a basic necessity when they can't afford it. We've got our priorities all screwed up.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  2. #282
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I simply find it ridiculous that we clothe, house, feed and provide water for illegal immigrants, pour billions into overseas aid but won't even supply US citizens, with a basic necessity when they can't afford it. We've got our priorities all screwed up.
    U.S. is indeed a weird country.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 07-03-14 at 06:35 AM.
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  3. #283
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    `
    So long as water is a "public utility" restricted to charging only enough to treat, maintain and distribute it, I see the logic of paying taxes for it.

  4. #284
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    With reguards to the overall issue, I would highly recommend that people read Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. TANSTAAFL

    [QUOTE=clownboy;1063439817You're begging for the return of mass water and mosquito bourne disease throughout densely populated areas. [/QUOTE]

    Like anything else, such as land maintenance, if someone is not taking proper care of their collected water they can be fined and if necessary the local government can step in to make it safe. It is no different than having to fine and then cut the grass of property that a person is not maintaining so as not to attract rodents and other vermin and insects.

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    The reason I brought this up, because if a major US city has half its population unable to afford basic water supply, it speaks to how broken our capitalist system is becoming.
    Not necessarily. Since the water is a government run operation you are not looking at how the capitalist system would be run. To use a government run system to call out capitalist systems is disingenuous.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

  5. #285
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Not necessarily. Since the water is a government run operation you are not looking at how the capitalist system would be run. To use a government run system to call out capitalist systems is disingenuous.
    If half a major city can't make enough money or find gainful employment to even afford water, then the capitalist system is becoming fubar.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  6. #286
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Capitalism isn't magical, anyway. Wealth is created and redistributed through the fulfilment of contracts, you can't resort to violence or the threat of violence.

    But, there's nothing to stop you building wealth, buying out resources, and denying people access to those resources.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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  7. #287
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    If half a major city can't make enough money or find gainful employment to even afford water, then the capitalist system is becoming fubar.
    You made no mention of wages and jobs before. You left the statement wide open to interpretation. However, you still have not shown that it is the capitalist system that has failed. Are the taxes excessively high such that business are leaving or not starting up in said major city? Are the taxes upon the workers so high that they have too little money to spread over the various costs of living? Is the government run water distribution system so full of red tape, corruption and/or bloated salaries that the cost is too high for the poor or unemployed? None of these factors are part of the Capitalist system but of the government system. They can however have a negative impact upon the capitalist system and result in what we are seeing.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

  8. #288
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    You made no mention of wages and jobs before. You left the statement wide open to interpretation. However, you still have not shown that it is the capitalist system that has failed. Are the taxes excessively high such that business are leaving or not starting up in said major city? Are the taxes upon the workers so high that they have too little money to spread over the various costs of living? Is the government run water distribution system so full of red tape, corruption and/or bloated salaries that the cost is too high for the poor or unemployed? None of these factors are part of the Capitalist system but of the government system. They can however have a negative impact upon the capitalist system and result in what we are seeing.
    It's broken in the sense that people at the top use it to the extreme. They ship out jobs, lobby and control legislation, manipulate markets and basically do anything for increased market share and profit. And they say "we'd go broke if we didn't do all these unpatriotic things", which is a lie. They'd make less in the short run, but more in the long run, because their base of buyers would be better situated to keep sales and purchases up. They basically use up, squeeze and burn everything to the ground with their tactics. The larger corporations are cohorts with gov't and not as positive a force as they once were in the scheme of things.

    How do we know this, because corporations are making record profits, stocks are at record highs, CEO, executives and shareholders income has increased and people are less employed than ever.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  9. #289
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Given that drinkable water is quite scarce in so many places, it is an absolute must to pay for it. Giving out free water would discourage conservation of water, resulting in damaging effects to the environment. The best way to conserve limited resources is to ensure they are exchanged on the free market. If there are shortages of water and fear of running out of supply, prices must be higher to curb demand.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  10. #290
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Given that drinkable water is quite scarce in so many places, it is an absolute must to pay for it. Giving out free water would discourage conservation of water, resulting in damaging effects to the environment. The best way to conserve limited resources is to ensure they are exchanged on the free market. If there are shortages of water and fear of running out of supply, prices must be higher to curb demand.
    The problem here is both an ethical and practical one.

    1. If water is run through the free market, a natural, public reasource becomes a private commodity. Ethically, this is an issue, because it makes the earth something that certain people own, and others don't.
    2. Chilean forestry and the agriculture of the Great Plains are examples of how capitalists, in their desire to produce more and more profit, tend to overexploit natural resources without managing them effectively.

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