View Poll Results: Should we pay for water?

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  • Yes

    59 73.75%
  • No

    15 18.75%
  • Maybe

    6 7.50%
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Thread: Should we pay for water?

  1. #241
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    No!

    You don't get to mischaracterize what I am saying by misrepresenting it by leaving out key elements,
    I haven't done any such thing.
    I commented specifically on what you had said.
    So it is you being dishonest.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Do not be surprised if I don't respond to you any longer. I have watched you for a long time, but have found myself fortunate not to have to deal with you. In fact, I don't have to deal with you, and will not.




    The truth is that you won't reply because you were wrong.

    Because if you had been right, as in correct, you would have shown what you claim I misrepresented, or showed which "key elements" I left out.
    But the fact is I didn't. Nothing else you said mattered to that which I specifically replied.


    Regardless. I have no problem with you not answering to your ridiculous comments.
    That is nothing but a reflection on you, not me.
    Last edited by Excon; 06-26-14 at 03:11 AM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  2. #242
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Of course you reduce poverty by paying people's way. You are supporting them. The more money you GIVE them for simply drawing breath, the less poor they are. Funny how that works. But unless you've got a money tree, that system sucks for the folks who do work and pay their own way. You also get perpetual linages of dole recipients.

    That's NOT reducing poverty, that's borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. And watch the program when you can, there are other episodes, and if your blood isn't boiling by the end, then you're likely to be part of the problem.
    Your statements are contradictory. First you said that welfare programs in European countries are reducing poverty. That's true. Than you said they're not. Which is it, exactly? No matter how much you tax the rich, no scenario has occured where they are in need of assistance because of overzealous taxation. You're also implying that our work ethic is measured by the amount of money that we make. That's simply not true.

    No, it won't. The projections are lies if they predict that. Unlike Britain's dole and council housing folks, when you are given a place to live here you're expected to be drug, alcohol and crime free. That's just not going to happen.
    Look at any of the sources I originally posted. Utah has already reduced homelessness by 78%. And if you think that most to all of the homeless are in their current situation because alcoholics, drug addicts, or criminals, you're letting stereotypes overrule facts.

  3. #243
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    You can still have a "right" and have it be provided by the state. Natural rights are natural in the sense of human nature. Human rights are the construct of men and the state provides these to all citizens equally.
    privileges and immunities [civil rights] are legal rights, government cannot give you a legal right, and then lay the burden of providing for the right on other citizens.

    privileges and immunities apply to police, fire, governmental services it does not apply to giving people material goods.

  4. #244
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Your right its not. Its the foundation of international human rights law
    but America has already its own foundation...life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.....IE... PROPERTY.

    and that government is instituted for the propose to secure rights.

  5. #245
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    privileges and immunities [civil rights] are legal rights, government cannot give you a legal right, and then lay the burden of providing for the right on other citizens.
    Of course it can. When the "burden" is applied to everyone equally.


  6. #246
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    I'll concede that the South African congress is terribly corrupt and has been incapable of doing much of anything productive right now, but the claim made was that no country guarantees a right to housing.
    I have not read the south African constitution in about 2 years, but if I remember correctly it states people have right to a place to live, HOWEVER it is also a constitution that says you have free speech, until you offend someone, and that you have rights, until the government says you no longer do.

  7. #247
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Of course it can. When the "burden" is applied to everyone equally.
    so lets see.

    first...water....... this is not federal...... its on a local or state level...... or can be private

    water and the facilities which provide it, receive payments for water consumed by persons who wish that service...provide by a government or business

    government also provides other services which the citizens pay for such as licensing. permits, inspection, as well as others, none of these are required in the securing of rights.

    but government also provides services through the form of taxation, for securing rights, such as life liberty and protection of property....police, fire and legal services

    water...... is not a service provided for the purpose of securing ..... life liberty and property.

    second....since these facilities, belong to state, local, and private entities, are they going to end their revenue making ability of charging people for water, and turn it into a service which depends on new taxation placed on the people, and if government provides the water free, does it have the ability to limit every person to only so much it wishes a person to have.

    is government now going to be in a position to dictate how much water each citizen can consume?

  8. #248
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    I have not read the south African constitution in about 2 years, but if I remember correctly it states people have right to a place to live, HOWEVER it is also a constitution that says you have free speech, until you offend someone, and that you have rights, until the government says you no longer do.
    I don't agree with it, but plenty of countries have anti-hate speech laws. Also, South Africa has pretty much been failed in a lot of areas where other countries have succeeded, such as universal healthcare. And as I previously mentioned, Utah's free housing program has already reduced homelessness by 78%. I mentioned it because it's constitution, which is horrible in so many other areas, guarantees housing as a right. South Africa alone should not be used as a barometer to measure the success of a free housing program.

  9. #249
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    I don't agree with it, but plenty of countries have anti-hate speech laws. Also, South Africa has pretty much been failed in a lot of areas where other countries have succeeded, such as universal healthcare. And as I previously mentioned, Utah's free housing program has already reduced homelessness by 78%. I mentioned it because it's constitution, which is horrible in so many other areas, guarantees housing as a right. South Africa alone should not be used as a barometer to measure the success of a free housing program.
    government cannot give you a natural right, ....so if Utah, is give people a civil right of a home, ...can you explain how this civil right is not being extended to every adult citizen of the state?

    since they would have the same right to a dwelling also.

    civil rights are legal rights of security.........having a civil right to a home, is not for securing rights....therefore illegal, under the founding principles of America.
    Last edited by Master PO; 06-26-14 at 04:39 PM.

  10. #250
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    government cannot give you a natural right, ....so if Utah, is give people a civil right of a home, ...can you explain how this civil right is not being extended to every adult citizen of the state?

    since they would have the same right to a dwelling also.

    civil rights are legal rights of security.........having a civil right to a home, is not for securing rights....therefore illegal, under the founding principles of America.
    Utah is eliminating homelessness by giving a home to those who need it. I recognize that this is different than a right to housing.

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