View Poll Results: Should we pay for water?

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  • Yes

    59 73.75%
  • No

    15 18.75%
  • Maybe

    6 7.50%
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Thread: Should we pay for water?

  1. #221
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    \
    Human rights are immaterial rights like the right to vote, the right to peacefully assemble, the right to address your grievances to the government, your right for a fair trial etc. etc. etc.
    not according to the UDHR


  2. #222
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    not according to the UDHR
    the UHDR is toilet paper with ink on it....

    great concept, extremely flawed execution....

    water is not infinite. maybe I treat it like it is because I live near Seattle where it is practically infinite, try going to southern california and try giving everyone free water, they'll drain the Owens Rive and Lake Mono in about 10 days. try driving along US 395 in the Owens Valley and look what cheap water did to the environment there, imagine if it were free,,,,
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
    "Be careful of averages, the average person has one breast and one testicle"
    -Dixy Lee Ray

  3. #223
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    not according to the UDHR
    it says the right to affordable water, not free water.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  4. #224
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    But you see the dole does what you suggest. It provides housing and all the basic needs. Then there is also money for food and the like. The problem is the same thing we put a stop to here at one time - they just breed entire generations of folks on the dole. Them, their children, their children's children and so forth.

    We don't want that here and as peachy as your ideas sound on paper, in reality humans make a muck of it.
    Firstly, Britain's welfare system is not the ideal welfare system. Scandinavian systems, (Finland, Sweden, and the like) are the best models of how we can and should reduce poverty. As the link I provided shows, poverty in Finland is at under 5%, compared to above 20% here. And the primary problem listed in the description of that British television series is that because of government cuts, there weren't sure if they were going to make ends meet. Even with people who remain on welfare under a universal welfare state, they are making ends meet with welfare as aid. A successful welfare state is capable of reducing poverty by 15% to 20% here; maybe more if we are successful, with the ultimate goal of eliminating poverty. And those 15-20% of people in poverty now who could be lifted out of it via a welfare state is no small feat, and I don't think that should be overlooked.

    No, I'm saying that those programs do not constitute Utah making housing a right.
    It's not a guaranteed right to housing; you're correct in that regard. But giving a home and a social worker to homeless people, which will essentially end homelessness within the next few years, according to projections, means that regardless of constitutional guarantees, there is no homelessness, and therefor it is pretty close to a right to housing.

  5. #225
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Without water, we cannot live. Therefore since we have a right to life we have a right to water.

    The prohibition on collecting rainwater should be prohibited.


    If you're not in a position to drop your own well, a "cost plus" method of delivery should be established in the locality in which you reside. The "plus" a minimal amount which covers the expenses of withdrawing, cleaning, distributing, and maintenance of infrastructure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    You cannot have a right to other people paying for something for you.

    Just because something is required for living does not make it a right.

    Rights are unalienable, inherent rather than parasitic.

    If everything you needed was provided for you, at the expense of another's labor, why work? Your survival is not my problem, I do not live for your sake.
    These two quotes, rightly understood, are not incompatible. You don't have an intrinsic right to someone delivering water to your home, but you do have a right to the water that falls from the sky, at a subsistence level.
    Rightly understood?

    By who's standards?



    Not!
    By reason.


    That isn't reason, and the two quotes are incompatible.

    There is no such "right" to water.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  6. #226
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Of course it does. There are fundamental human rights everyone is guranteed, even if the state does not gurantee them or not.
    So?[/QUOTE]

    So people need to be very clear when they say something should be a right what exactly they mean by that, and what would be required for it to be upheld.

  7. #227
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    not according to the UDHR
    Once again, the UDHR was solely to set the definition of terms used in UN documents and negotiations. So when so and so from Japan mentions "human rights" all the other members know what he/she's referring to.

  8. #228
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    No. You have the right to own a gun if you wish. A human right is something provided for you no matter what.
    Which is a human right in America. If I could afford it then by your logic the government should buy me one.

  9. #229
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post

    So people need to be very clear when they say something should be a right what exactly they mean by that, and what would be required for it to be upheld.
    Which was the original purpose of the UDHR, to have an agreed upon definition of those terms within the context of UN documents and negotiations.

  10. #230
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    Re: Should we pay for water?

    This answer is two part. Water is a basic human right. There should be no infringement on the collection of rain water, desalination, home purification. But should the government hand out water to people? No, thats a tremendous waste of money considering how easy it is to collect and purify rain water (assuming it's legal in your state) and other methods of reaching a water source that can be cleaned.
    "The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool." : Stephen King

    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto." Thomas Jefferson

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